OD&D Edition Experience: Did/Do You Play OD&D? How Was/Is It?

[atanakar]

This is your false expectation right here. You are not promised or guaranteed any of that. If I read a chess rulebook that shows me strategy and moves to win, is that a promise or guarantee? Nope, it takes skill, perseverance and some luck.

We play RPGs because we want to go up levels and vicariously experience a long term narrative. These are not false expectations. If I didn't want that, I would play Chess. Gygax and Arneson invented D&D precisely for that purpose. The XP tables are the hard coded promise of that.

 

[CleverNickName]

It's not about winning. We certainly did not have «false exceptions». It's about recreating a long term narrative and adventurous immersion with the same character, as promised the XP charts presented in the game itself. The game doesn't deliver on its promise if you play 100% raw, you just die and start over, again and again and again, just like in a video game. Sorry but no thank you.

I've never played OD&D but this doesn't sound very different from 5th Edition, tbh. When playing with the rules as-written, you automatically recover all of your hit points at the start of every day ("save point"), and by 5th level you can bring your "dead" comrades back to life with money. So you just die and start over, again and again, just like in a video game.

I know the tone is different, and the save-or-die mechanic in OD&D is more rare in 5E, but the games sound pretty similar.

 

[HarbingerX]

We play RPGs because we want to go up levels and vicariously experience a long term narrative. These are not false expectations. If I didn't want that, I would play Chess. Gygax and Arneson invented D&D precisely for that purpose. The XP tables are the hard coded promise of that.

Different tables, different experiences unfortunately. I ran LL for 3 years monthly with 3 players and we had one death due to a specter level drain. The only rule change was I awarded XP at 100 per monster HD as it was in OD&D - this levels faster a low levels, but then becomes slower. After 30 or so sessions, players were reaching 5th level and able to handle a lot. Though there were still areas they were too afraid to enter because they got bloodied and had to run.

 

[atanakar]

Different tables, different experiences unfortunately. I ran LL for 3 years monthly with 3 players and we had one death due to a specter level drain. The only rule change was I awarded XP at 100 per monster HD as it was in OD&D - this levels faster a low levels, but then becomes slower. After 30 or so sessions, players were reaching 5th level and able to handle a lot. Though there were still areas they were too afraid to enter because they got bloodied and had to run.

Labyrinth Lord? Don't know that game. If you play OD&D 100% RAW you roll hit points. Having a Magic-User with 1 hit point, no constitution, only one spell per day, a dagger and no armour is not viable no matter how skillful your are, he will die during the first fight. That is not the game we wanted to play and took measures to address that. I suspect our experience wasn't an exception. I played with many groups during that period and they all had their house rules to beef up 1st level characters. Including not dying until -10hp.

 

[atanakar]

I've never played OD&D but this doesn't sound very different from 5th Edition, tbh. When playing with the rules as-written, you automatically recover all of your hit points at the start of every day ("save point"), and by 5th level you can bring your "dead" comrades back to life with money. So you just die and start over, again and again, just like in a video game.

I know the tone is different, and the save-or-die mechanic in OD&D is rare compared to 5E, but the games sound pretty similar.

You are correct but I don't play 5e like that. I use all the optional rules in the DMG to make 5e as gritty as I can without going so far as to make it unviable for characters. That is my point. I'm okay with the game being harder, but I don't want to play in a game (OD&D) in which you have an extremely low chance of survival and a very high level of death caused by random death rolls or wonky side-A/side-B combats, as I explained in my other post.

I've explained my experience with old school games enough.
I'm bowing out. May the d20 be with you all. ;-)

 

[Oofta]

Labyrinth Lord? Don't know that game. If you play OD&D 100% RAW you roll hit points. Having a Magic-User with 1 hit point, no constitution, only one spell per day, a dagger and no armour is not viable no matter how skillful your are, he will die during the first fight. That is not the game we wanted to play and took measures to address that. I suspect our experience wasn't an exception. I played with many groups during that period and they all had their house rules to beef up 1st level characters. Including not dying not dying until -10hp.

Yeah, we had a lot of house rules so you didn't end up with a fighter in basically the same boat. According to Gygax you were supposed to embrace the weakness and just be the guy in the back shooting arrows because 1 hit could take out your mid-to-high level fighter.

Which meant that a lot of times you couldn't play the hero you had envisioned or the party simply didn't have a front line. May have worked for some people, not so much with people I played with.

 

[JeffB]

We play RPGs because we want to go up levels and vicariously experience a long term narrative. These are not false expectations. If I didn't want that, I would play Chess. Gygax and Arneson invented D&D precisely for that purpose. The XP tables are the hard coded promise of that.

I'm not arguing that you want to go up in levels. Of course you do. But it's not guaranteed or promised. In fact, Survival is touched upon all over the place. It's a goal, not an expectation. Character deaths are common. I'm NOT saying you have to love the game RAW, but it's not EASY in the original game to get up into levels. It's really hard those first few levels.

Before they begin players must decide what role they will play in the campaign- human or otherwise, fighter,cleric or magic user. Thereafter they will work upwards - if they survive -as they gain "experience"

That's Gary's emphasis, not mine.


Then Tom touches on survival here:

When the adventure is over the DM gives experience points to the surviving characters

Conversely, RAW Tom says to change things if level advancement is going too slowly. No houserule needed- it's right here in the book.

If no one has reached the 2nd level of experience in 3 or 4 adventures, the DM should consider giving more treasure"

Frank's Edit is loaded with talk of character death and survival.

Your character has been lost in the Dungeon. Don't be upset, it can happen in any Dungeons & Dragons game, and often does, through no fault of yours

Conversely, RAW Frank also says, feel free to give PC's MAX HP at first level on P. 18, DM Book.


Going back to OD&D

It is reasonable to calculate that if a fair player takes part in 50-75 games in the course of a year he should acquire sufficient experience points to reach 9th to 11th level assuming that he manages to survive all that play

IT's a HARD game to get up just a few levels. I think your expectations about OD&D games were not realistic. Also some people, really enjoy that difficulty/challenge and find it fun, RAW or otherwise *


*I'm not saying you have to.

Besides all that- RAW- Every single editon of OD&D tells you change the game to taste- From the LBBs through Holmes, Moldvay, Mentzer and the RC. It is assumed people will do that. So you can play it either way with the blessings of the creators.

 

[HarbingerX]

Going back to OD&D

IT's a HARD game to get up just a few levels. I think your expectations about OD&D games were not realistic. Also some people, really enjoy that difficulty/challenge and find it fun, RAW or otherwise *

I'm one of those players. I usually DM, but I have a great memory of a game of Swords & Wizardry where I had 4 characters die at first level before finally having one make it. The thing is, I didn't just abandon those characters, I wove their experiences into that of my current character, so despite their only having a short time in the spotlight, their actions continued to influence that game.

Great fun.

 

[JeffB]

According to Gygax you were supposed to embrace the weakness and just be the guy in the back shooting arrows because 1 hit could take out your mid-to-high level fighter.

Where did Gary say this?

 

[JeffB]

I'm one of those players. I usually DM, but I have a great memory of a game of Swords & Wizardry where I had 4 characters die at first level before finally having one make it. The thing is, I didn't just abandon those characters, I wove their experiences into that of my current character, so despite their only having a short time in the spotlight, their actions continued to influence that game.

Great fun.

Me three. I don't ALWAYS want to play in that style. But I enjoy it. Oddly enough, I hate DCC RPG Funnels, which takes it off the deep end