D&D 5E Effect Importance by Tier

[FrogReaver]

I think that you have to consider the massive effects that divination, stealth, etc can have on the combat before it even starts

For example, in a campaign we learned, via spying, that our rivals would stir up a nest of ghouls to harass the rail-line. We used a type of divination to find the nest quickly, went there, and destroyed the ghouls (... I hope, we are almost done with the fight, in theory...). With the use of spying, teleportation and divination, we pre-empted a move against our party and interests.

They can be very important and powerful, but I'm also afraid they can be really campaign dependent. So it's incredibly hard to weight their value so we can all agree on their general placement on the list.

 

[FrogReaver]

The opposite of stealth/invisibility is detection/sensing/finding.

Hmmm. Typically perception is the only defense against surprise. And while technically this isn't being done in combat most of the time, it is often rolled immediately before combat. I'm torn on this one. I'm leaning toward including it. Any one else have thoughts?

 

[Ancalagon]

They can be very important and powerful, but I'm also afraid they can be really campaign dependent. So it's incredibly hard to weight their value so we can all agree on their general placement on the list.

Unfortunately you may be correct, alas.

 

[Ancalagon]

Hmmm. Typically perception is the only defense against surprise. And while technically this isn't being done in combat most of the time, it is often rolled immediately before combat. I'm torn on this one. I'm leaning toward including it. Any one else have thoughts?

I think I would include it. In that ghoul battle I mentioned above? 2 ghouls rogues were invisible and penetrated our lines and struck. One made me lose 4 images off my mirror image, and the other paralyzed and inflicted bleed on the party's fighter. That was the worse moment of the fight, and if my magus and the gun slinger hadn't come up with a lot of damage in a single round, to destroy both ghouls-rogues, it would have been a disaster.

That was a stealth attack right in the middle of a combat.

 

[Haldrik]

To me, mobility is lumped in with the damage and defensive categories. That's it's only real effect on encounters as far as I can tell?

Because mobility is dual-use, combat and exploration, it is worth treating as a separate category.

The opposite of mobility is control/immobility/wall/restraint. In this sense, even the Knock spell that can bypass a locked door is an example of mobility, and the Arcane Lock spell that can block a door is an example of control/immobility.

 

[Haldrik]

Hmmm. Typically perception is the only defense against surprise. And while technically this isn't being done in combat most of the time, it is often rolled immediately before combat. I'm torn on this one. I'm leaning toward including it. Any one else have thoughts?

Surprise is part of a combat encounter. So Perception versus Stealth is too.

Detection/Sensing/Finding opposing Stealth/Invisibility are mostly combat, even if sometimes Detection has dual use.

 

[FrogReaver]

I placed a note on stealth/perception in the OP. I think they are fair segments to consider - its just they seem very campaign and DM specific in terms of importance. I think that's the most fair way to handle them?

 

[FrogReaver]

Because mobility is dual-use, combat and exploration, it is worth treating as a separate category.

The opposite of mobility is control/immobility/wall/restraint. In this sense, even the Knock spell that can bypass a locked door is an example of mobility, and the Arcane Lock spell that can block a door is an example of control/immobility.

This thread is solely about combat not exploration. Says so in the first sentence of my opening post

 

[Haldrik]

Combat Tags
• Damage v Heal
• Debuff v Buff/Restoration
• Detection/Perception/Visibility v Nondetection/Stealth/Obscurement
• Mobility v Control/Restraint/Wall
• Summon v Banish

 

[FrogReaver]

Surprise is part of a combat encounter. So Perception versus Stealth is too.

Detection/Sensing/Finding opposing Stealth/Invisibility are mostly combat, even if sometimes Detection has dual use.

I think you are technically right. I generally don't consider combat to start until initiative is rolled but stealth/perception is listed in the combat steps in the PHB even though it comes before initiative.