Effects lasting until the end of the encounter, w00t!

[kennew142]

I like the per-encounter abilities, and the fact that buff spells last the encounter...

But,

Am I the only one worried that the game will end up feeling a lot like (need to be careful here because I know where this can go) playing my world of warcraft character.

Now before we all go off the deep end, let me explain...

When I play my character I have a set strategy, I always cast the same spells, in the same order…

Why do I feel like we may see the same thing in 4e, players will always open up with the best per encounter buff they have, seeing it lasts till the end of the encounter, get it out as fast as you can.

I play a 15th level sorcerer in Living Arcanis (the coolest shared world - ever), and the tactic ends up being the same for me. I cast pretty much the same spells in the same order, in almost every encounter. To a certain extent that is the nature of the spellslinger in an RPG.

 

[Doug McCrae]

Am I the only one worried that the game will end up feeling a lot like (need to be careful here because I know where this can go) playing my world of warcraft character.

Buffs in WoW are all timed, lasting 5mins, 30mins and so forth. In fact practically everything in WoW is timed, it's a major feature of the game. So 1e-3e are a lot more videogamey than 4e.

The problem is it's a bad kind of videogamey. Computers are a lot better at keeping track of in-game time than people. For example, I often lose track of how many rounds someone's been slowed/glitterdusted/confused for. And 1 min/level, 10 min/level buffs are really just guesswork on the DM's part. In comparison it's much easier to keep track of when an encounter ends. Sure there are corner cases, but in general it's easier.

Why do I feel like we may see the same thing in 4e, players will always open up with the best per encounter buff they have, seeing it lasts till the end of the encounter, get it out as fast as you can.

They'll use what they think is the best ability for that situation, which won't necessarily be a buff. Resist fire for a red dragon, spider climb for a battle on a cliff, psi shield vs. mind flayers, fireball for a large number of goblins, etc.

 

[Kraydak]

...

They'll use what they think is the best ability for that situation, which won't necessarily be a buff. Resist fire for a red dragon, spider climb for a battle on a cliff, psi shield vs. mind flayers, fireball for a large number of goblins, etc.

You run into the issue of, if buffs are a per-encounter ability, you throw them up every time they drop: they become permanent. If the buffs are per-day abilities, you have reason to manipulate (or argue about) the encounter-ending conditions.

 

[Li Shenron]

Why do I feel like we may see the same thing in 4e, players will always open up with the best per encounter buff they have, seeing it lasts till the end of the encounter, get it out as fast as you can.

Because for a certain kind of gamer, that happens in ALL editions of every game.

 

[The Little Raven]

You run into the issue of, if buffs are a per-encounter ability, you throw them up every time they drop: they become permanent. If the buffs are per-day abilities, you have reason to manipulate (or argue about) the encounter-ending conditions.

It says that buffs last for an encounter. That doesn't necessarily mean that all buffs are a per-encounter ability.

 

[Li Shenron]

Player: I cast bull's strength and kick down the door.

DM: Ok, your encounter with the door is over, your bull's strength spell ends.

How about this tactic: you keep a small pet animal, such as a rat. Then while in battle, you grapple the rat and slightly damage it, so that he becomes a foe. You maintain the grapple on the rat, while fighting the real foes. When the battle's over, you continue struggling with the rat so that the "encounter" goes on, in the meantime you go around in the dungeon looking for more real enemies without your buffs expiring.

Alternatively, when you see the last foe dropping, all PCs can start slapping each other in pairs...

 

[The Little Raven]

Player: I cast bull's strength and kick down the door.

DM: Ok, your encounter with the door is over, your bull's strength spell ends.

I pity this player for having a crappy DM.

 

[paulsometimes]

I'm looking at this in a way like the buffs are fueled by adrenaline. Which sounds a bit out there, but it would make sense with the idea of lastin for the encounter. As soon as there is no longer a perceived threat, a character's adrenaline starts to leave the system and takes the buff with it. As for how often it can be used, it would really be up to the skill of the person supplying the buff.

 

[Lanefan]

This business of timing has been my major concern with "per-encounter" duration since I first heard of it. What defines an encounter? Is there a "maximum length"? A "minimum length"? And if either exists, why not just stick with fixed durations? (and, as someone else already noted, how the flip does per-encounter interact with army-vs.-army battle scenarios that could go on all day, or ship-vs.-ship naval battles where 30 seconds of action comes after 5 minutes of waiting for the ships to come about?)

And, it's not *that* hard to keep track of spell durations....

Lanefan

 

[The Little Raven]

What defines an encounter?

The DM. Just like he always defined when 5 minutes had passed.