EL and larger than normal parties

[Kaledor]

Alright, I think I'm just blind.
I thought I once read rules on how to handle the EL conversion for a party of more than 4 characters. I starting a group with 6 PCs and I'd like to have some judge of what they should be able to handle.

Clearly 6 1st level characters are better than 4, so a standard EL1 encounter isn't for them...

Anyways, any help on finding where that rule went.
-OR- if someone has a better ruling...

It's greatly appreciated

Thanks

 

[pawsplay]

In my experience, parties of 5 can handle about +1 to the EL, provided it's keyed for them, normal, otherwise. A party of 6 can probably take a +1 easy, maybe a +2. Just as an example, six 1st level characters can probably topple an ogre without sweating too hard.

 

[frankthedm]

Since when is a party member being one shotted "sweating"? A larger party might have a better numeric chance of getting lucky against an ogre, but the ogre's + 8 to hit, 2d8+7 damage will takle out a 1/4 of the party's members rather than 1/4 the party's resourses. It will likely die after it kills a couple folks. I've thrown ogres at first level parties, but i assumed someone would die in the encounter.

More foes are important in larger parties. Target rich enviroments ensure everyone has something to do. A burrow of deranged goblins with rabid dire rats is a grand idea.

 

[Kaledor]

This was the problem I was running into when I was designing adventures.
A single CR 1 creature is no match for 6 characters, BUT 1 big CR3 creature can kill a character a round!


It sounds, then, like a party of 6 1st level characters would be equal to an EL 2 or EL 3 AS LONG AS that Encounter Level was composed of several smaller CR1/2 or CR1 creatures rather than just one single CR 3 creature. So multiple orcs is a good EL, but the single ogre would be pushing it.


Did WotC ever write up anything on handling bigger than traditional parties?
I was sure that I had read something about it somewhere, but can't remember where...

 

[irdeggman]

I had an e-mail from Skip (the Sage) a while age when I asked the question.

Basically he suggested added +1 for every 2 members more than 4.

When I get home I'll see if I can dig up the "specifics".

I believe the "rule" is to use the mixed pairs info from the DMG and back fit it out. IMO the +1 for every 2 more is a nice quick and dirty method while backing the information out is more accurate albeit more time consuming.

 

[DungeonMaester]

> I like to challange my party by making them fight npcs that are equal to thier ECL. A Party of Barbarian, a cleric, and Rouge and a monk, Fight..oh..say....A cleric, a ninja, and two scout to fight them on the main road.

> Sadly for my party though, The didnt plan ahead or think in terms of tatics, and only did what thier Nince was-> Barb Raged, Monk Grappled and the Rouge went off for a sneak attack.

> The two scouts who hid upon first seeing the party off in the distances picked off the sneak quickly, and wounded the others early off as well. The monk tried to grapple te ninja, sho dispeared and put a Katana in his monk's gut. The Raged Barb charged past the Ninja to the cleric, being smacked silly by a katana, arrows*, and the Clerics mace, knocking him out before he could even get his attack.

>The moral of this story is, dont use this type of chalange if you party is a bunch of Niche fighters.

Sorry for any typos in advance

---Rusty

*In my house rules, and one with a range attack ready and a line of shot can take a AoO as if you had reach. Some agrue its already the rule and some agrue its not, so this makes it simple.

 

[pawsplay]

Since when is a party member being one shotted "sweating"? A larger party might have a better numeric chance of getting lucky against an ogre, but the ogre's + 8 to hit, 2d8+7 damage will takle out a 1/4 of the party's members rather than 1/4 the party's resourses. It will likely die after it kills a couple folks. I've thrown ogres at first level parties, but i assumed someone would die in the encounter.

More foes are important in larger parties. Target rich enviroments ensure everyone has something to do. A burrow of deranged goblins with rabid dire rats is a grand idea.

Unless the ogre crits, no one is going to die.

In one round one, the ogre may get in an attack versus one party member, and may hit. If so, the fighter goes down. The cleric heals him. The rogue attacks. The wizard casts sleep.

What is the fifth party member doing? If they're a monk, the ogre has to save vs. being stunned. If they're a sorcerer, they have to save against a second sleep spell. If they're a fighter, they're clobbering the ogre.

It's very unlikely for an ogre to have a winning chance after the second round. Incidentally, a 1st level fighter or barbarian with Toughness may actually have enough hit points to take a hit from an ogre.

Most likely, the ogre will never even get a chance to attack. The party will clobber him with multiple sleep spells or barrages of arrows from 60' away.