Enervation Question

[Angelsboi]

Why isnt there a save for this?

My players asked em this and i dont know why

 

[CRGreathouse]

...because it would be too weak with a save?

 

[gfunk]

I suppose the main reason is b/c it's a touch attack. If it was an auto-hit (e.g. Finger of Death) then there would probably be a save.

 

[Nish]

Basically all the spell does is give the target a 1-4 penalty to most things, and cause 5-20 points of damage. All of which lasts only an hour. However, it does have a chance to kill very weak creatures, but do you really need a fourth level spell for that? In addition it also requires a ranged touch attack, as has already been mentioned, which means its still not exactly automatic.

If you are still not convinced, just compare the spell to Polymorph Other. Then try and tell us the spell is too pwerful.

[EditThe non-balance reason (but rather a rules consistency reason) that it does not require a save is that negative levels only allow a save 24 hours later to determine whether or not they result in an actual level loss, and since Enervation does not last that long, it has no save.

 

[Hypersmurf]

However, it does have a chance to kill very weak creatures, but do you really need a fourth level spell for that?

"Negative levels stack", of course.

-Hyp.

 

[Nish]

"Negative levels stack", of course.

-Hyp.

Well yes, with repeated castings your chances of killing more powerful stuff does increase...

Man I dig that spell.

And I have a necromancer that's very close to level 7. Or at least he will be again one I can get a damn restoration. My DM must enjoy the irony of level draining the necromancer, because he keeps doing it. And I keep failing my frickin' saves...

Oh well, soon the table shall be turned. <fiendish cackle>

 

[Schmoe]

and cause 5-20 points of damage.

Where's the rule for this? I looked all over, but I couldn't find it anywhere.

 

[Nish]

Where's the rule for this? I looked all over, but I couldn't find it anywhere.

From the SRD:

Each successful energy draining attack bestows one or more negative levels on the opponent. A creature suffers the following penalties for each negative level it has gained:
·–1 to all skill and ability checks
·–1 to attack rolls and saving throws
·–5 hit points
·–1 effective level (whenever the creature’s level is used in a die roll or calculation, reduce it by one for each negative level)
If the victim casts spells, she loses access to one spell as if she had cast her highest-level, currently available spell. (If she has more than one spell at her highest level, she chooses which she loses.) In addition, when she next prepares spells or regains spell slots, she gets one less spell slot at her highest spell level.

Emphasis added of course.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Emphasis added of course.

There's no mention of -5 hit points in the PHB, either under "Enervation", or under "Negative Level" in the glossary.

-Hyp.

 

[Nish]

Unfortunately I don't have my PHB handy, nor do I have a DMG so I can't check the negative level description there, but the special abilities section is one of the released parts of the SRD, so in theory it should be an authoritative source.

Here is all the SRD says about the spell.

Enervation

Necromancy
Level: Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Effect: Ray of negative energy
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes

The character must make a ranged touch attack to hit. If the attack succeeds, the subject gains 1d4 negative levels.

If the ray strikes an undead creature, it gives that creature 5 temporary hit points per two caster levels (maximum 25 temporary hit points).

It just says it inflicts negative levels, which would imply that one should use the description of negative levels that appears in the special abilities section. However, it also doesn't metion the one hour [Edit: per level] time limit, so the description here is obviously lacking.

I guess I'll e-mail the sage and see if I can get a response as to what exactly Enervation is supposed to do. Unless of course someone already knows an official answer to this one that we seem to be missing...