Epic problem OOC

Hmmm...yeah, the party does consist of some pretty damn GOOD characters atm. Minathiel is, as stated, literally oozing GOOD.. heck, he's one step shy of exalted. Athear is a Silver Dragon, which is one of the two major icons of good as far as this campaign world is concerned (Silver and gold dragons symbolize the epitomy of goodness and purity on the prime), and Darimaus' bard (Mary, I believe) is another "epitomy of good" style character (Paldin levels and an exalted feat, 'words of creation').

Jool the drogorn is evil, but she's more of what I call 'Kenpach evil', which is closer to Neutral. Definitely heartless/cruel, but more of an "I don't care, I just wanna fight people" than someone actively seeking to promote evil (From what I've seen of her so far, at least).

Thoughts:
First off, upon review I recognize the Paladin of Tyranny, and have allready said no to it in a few other games b/c I think it's deadly touch ability is far too easily broken. Since this is especially true at Epic level, I'll also be saying no to it in this game.

As to the 'three uber good characters consorting with evil' problem...
The short of it is that your characters will have to deal with it.
They're the only backup you've got, and each of your personal gods/patrons/whatever have made it clear that regardless of how you may despise it, you must work with them for the greater good. You could try to convert them to mend their wicked ways, or keep an eye on them to ensure they are helping the good cause.

Also, I'd like to point out that 'associating with evil' is not considered an evil act, and does not break a paladins code(It's listed SEPERATELY for paladins, not under their code, that they won't knowingly associate with evil) OR make an exalted person loose their exalted status. It's HOW and WHY you interact with them that determines things like that. I've also always disliked the whole "a paladin will not knowingly assocaite with evil creatures"... How do you redeem someone without associating with them?

This doesn't mean you have to let them be evil and commit evil acts, precisely the opposite. It just means you can work with them, and pretty much have to.
It's a classic thing in most any story, the good and evil people have to team up to go against something beyond both of them, and I think it'll make for a very interesting story.

Does anybody still have a problem with this, and if so what?

Now, as far as WD's mage goes, my # 1 concern is: Dracolexi has a lot of interesting abilities, but the power words essentially useless at Epic. The draconic words can be useful, depending on which ones you choose.
As far as the dragonheart mage, might I suggest Improved Spellcasting instead of Epic Spellcasting? I assume your main course of attack will be the breath weapon, and having improved spellcasting will give you higher level spell slots to sac for more damage (if you spent 3 epic feats on it, you'd be able to sac one of your 12th lvl spell slots for 36d6 damage (reflex DC22+cha for half). I'd also suggest checking out dragon magic for extra draconic feats (such as Draconic vigor and Draconic Senses).
 

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Jemal said:
...

Now, as far as WD's mage goes, my # 1 concern is: Dracolexi has a lot of interesting abilities, but the power words essentially useless at Epic. The draconic words can be useful, depending on which ones you choose.
As far as the dragonheart mage, might I suggest Improved Spellcasting instead of Epic Spellcasting? I assume your main course of attack will be the breath weapon, and having improved spellcasting will give you higher level spell slots to sac for more damage (if you spent 3 epic feats on it, you'd be able to sac one of your 12th lvl spell slots for 36d6 damage (reflex DC22+cha for half). I'd also suggest checking out dragon magic for extra draconic feats (such as Draconic vigor and Draconic Senses).

Dracolexi gives me a better skill list, some nifty powerwords, abonus feat, a better hit die and nearly full casting. It is also very in-theme.
I wanted epic spellcasting for some epic buffs (Epic Mage armor for one).

I will make a list of good draconic feats :)

Can I use an old dragonwrought kobold as my race? (The smallest epic dragon ever ;) )
 

I think somebody else asked for a Dragonwrought Kobold a page or two back, and I'm gonna stick with no. Kobold yes, dragonwrought no this time round.
 



That's all fine, I suppose.

Here's my concern. It sets us up not just for IC conflict but for OOC as well. The only reason to make an evil character is because one wants to RP doing evil things. I can't see any other reason. However, the three 'good' characters are obligated to make sure that doesn't happen. In other words, we are obliged to make sure one PC cannot be RP'ed according to the player's intent. If he tries to do evil, we must stop him. Now, your whole, 'you must cooperate scenario' works, but only if he waters himself down, and plays 'evil lite.'

I guess I just question why someone would want to play evil in a group that's mostly aggressively good. It seems like that kind of deep idealogical gap dooms the game either to constant inter-PC conflict, or at -best- to the whole point of RP'ing evil in the first place being diluted and rendered moot.

Anyway, it's a concern I have. If the players of evil don't mind constantly being monitored and subject to that kind of smothering attention...then I suppose my concern is unwarranted.
 

As long as you don't have a problem with the association, I don't; though I imagine there is going to be a huge amount of friction. I will have to adjust Minathiel's personality a tad, but that is fine.
 

Jemal said:
I think somebody else asked for a Dragonwrought Kobold a page or two back, and I'm gonna stick with no. Kobold yes, dragonwrought no this time round.
Fine, than I will make him a spellscale (normal kobolds are a little bit underpowered, and I'm not used to epic, too.)
How do you read this:
Humanoid (dragonblood): Spellscales are humanoids with the dragonblood subtype. For all effects related to race, a spellscale is considered a dragon.

Alter Self is no "effect"?

[sblock=Feats]Draconic Heritage (Copper) (Bonus from Dragonblooded Sorcerer)
Still Spell (Bonus Dracolexi)

1 Eschew Materials
3 Draconic Aura
6 Improved Toughness
9 Versatile Spellcaster
12 Extend Spell
15 Quicken Spell
18 Accelerate Metamagic (Quicken Spell)


21 Improved Spell Capacity
24 Improved Spell Capacity
27 Improved Spell Capacity
30 Epic Spellcasting

Dragonheart Mage
1 Draconic Breath
2 Draconic Senses
4 Draconic Vigor
8 Draconic Arcane Grace[/sblock]
 
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Jemal said:
Hmmm...yeah, the party does consist of some pretty damn GOOD characters atm. Minathiel is, as stated, literally oozing GOOD.. heck, he's one step shy of exalted. Athear is a Silver Dragon, which is one of the two major icons of good as far as this campaign world is concerned (Silver and gold dragons symbolize the epitomy of goodness and purity on the prime), and Darimaus' bard (Mary, I believe) is another "epitomy of good" style character (Paldin levels and an exalted feat, 'words of creation').

Jool the drogorn is evil, but she's more of what I call 'Kenpach evil', which is closer to Neutral. Definitely heartless/cruel, but more of an "I don't care, I just wanna fight people" than someone actively seeking to promote evil (From what I've seen of her so far, at least).

Thoughts:
First off, upon review I recognize the Paladin of Tyranny, and have allready said no to it in a few other games b/c I think it's deadly touch ability is far too easily broken. Since this is especially true at Epic level, I'll also be saying no to it in this game.

As to the 'three uber good characters consorting with evil' problem...
The short of it is that your characters will have to deal with it.
They're the only backup you've got, and each of your personal gods/patrons/whatever have made it clear that regardless of how you may despise it, you must work with them for the greater good. You could try to convert them to mend their wicked ways, or keep an eye on them to ensure they are helping the good cause.

Also, I'd like to point out that 'associating with evil' is not considered an evil act, and does not break a paladins code(It's listed SEPERATELY for paladins, not under their code, that they won't knowingly associate with evil) OR make an exalted person loose their exalted status. It's HOW and WHY you interact with them that determines things like that. I've also always disliked the whole "a paladin will not knowingly assocaite with evil creatures"... How do you redeem someone without associating with them?

This doesn't mean you have to let them be evil and commit evil acts, precisely the opposite. It just means you can work with them, and pretty much have to.
It's a classic thing in most any story, the good and evil people have to team up to go against something beyond both of them, and I think it'll make for a very interesting story.

Does anybody still have a problem with this, and if so what?

Jemal, I'd be happy to not use the deadly touch ability. I only chose Paladin of Tyranny for the Divine Grace ability.

Also, Scion would not be the over-the-top kind of evil but more like an assasin or other professional killer who would take great pride in his work.

Can mage armor and greater mage armor be affected by the Abjurant Champion's abjurant armor ability since it is mentioned that Abjurant Champion's use mage armor and it would make sense except that mage armor and its greater counterpart are conjuration effects even though they are more of force effects instead of actual armor.
 
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