D&D 4E Everyone's a swordsage; Thoughts on 4E after my first read-through.

[Moggthegob]

So basically, the game needs time to grow on you, you're saying. Out of curiosity, were you a fan of the ToB? It seems that most of the people I know personally that like it, were also fans of that book.

 

[Moggthegob]

All the Fighter's Encounter powers are weapon-dependent. From level 1.

Cheers, -- N

Where is that? Simply in terms of damage in the damage expression or what?

It seems iIve missed it.

 

[Surgoshan]

Yeah, every level has powers that give further benefits to one choice over another. Like the rogues; some powers give push/slide benefits based on strength and only to the brutal scoundrel; other powers give charisma based benefits and only for the artful dodger. Some fighter powers have benefits for axe users, other give benefits to blades, spears, flails, etc.

 

[VannATLC]

That would be because they both share a major designer.

I also found it amusing that basically everything you've said you don't like was almost unanimously heralded as good change on the boards.

Uneven power creep is bad for an even playing table.
Just because you have players mature enough to deal with it does not render uneven *better*.

Same again for randomness or swing-factor.

Anyway, I hope you play through it and enjoy it. While there are things that bug me, there seems to be substantially less than 3.5, so far.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

So basically, the game needs time to grow on you, you're saying. Out of curiosity, were you a fan of the ToB? It seems that most of the people I know personally that like it, were also fans of that book.

ToB, and Complete Scoundrel (for Skill Tricks) were my two favourite 3.5 books.

Edit: When it comes to the fighter, make sure you notice the little Weapon: (Text) that comes along with a ton of the Exploits, that is where it comes noticable, for instance Level 3's Crushing Blow has under it:

Weapon: If you’re wielding an axe, a hammer, or a mace, you gain a bonus to the damage roll equal to your Constitution modifier.

 

[Nifft]

Where is that? Simply in terms of damage in the damage expression or what?

It seems iIve missed it.

You know what? I was totally lying. The weapon effects start at level 3 Encounter powers, not level 1.

Sorry, -- N

 

[Moggthegob]

Oh wow, something I just read. Why can't halflings use small two-handed weapons? I thought we were done with those kind of rules with 3e.

 

[jeffh]

Uneven power levels and the spiked chain ruling over virtually all other weapons were two of the most commonly-cited problems with 3E.

However, I do share some of your concerns about the classes seeming the same. My main worry, which I've voiced before, is that they've pushed everyone to almost the same level of complexity, which may reduce the range of players it appeals to. I liked that there were some fairly simple characters and some extremely complicated ones (mechanically speaking) and a decent range in between (if a little bit skewed toward the high end) that you could build, because it made D&D feel like it had something for everyone, at least everyone potentially interested in RPGs in the first place. I'm not saying the new version completely lacks appeal to hardcore gamers, but it does seem to have lost some of that range, and perhaps quite a bit of it.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

Oh wow, something I just read. Why can't halflings use small two-handed weapons? I thought we were done with those kind of rules with 3e.

Well there is still small keyword, but it is different. Small doesn't mean that it is specifically made for small characters, but that it is small enough to be used normally by a small character, like the shortbow.

So, as such it doesn't make much sense for a Halfling to use a normal-sized two-handed weapon.

Now this is quite easy to houserule, take the weapon enlargement table, and simply reverse it, and give that weapon the "small" keyword.

 

[Moggthegob]

Uneven power levels and the spiked chain ruling over virtually all other weapons were two of the most commonly-cited problems with 3E.

However, I do share some of your concerns about the classes seeming the same. My main worry, which I've voiced before, is that they've pushed everyone to almost the same level of complexity, which may reduce the range of players it appeals to. I liked that there were some fairly simple characters and some extremely complicated ones (mechanically speaking) and a decent range in between (if a little bit skewed toward the high end) that you could build, because it made D&D feel like it had something for everyone, at least everyone potentially interested in RPGs in the first place. I'm not saying the new version completely lacks appeal to hardcore gamers, but it does seem to have lost some of that range, and perhaps quite a bit of it.

Well, it seems I was always the odd man out in liking those things. The spiked chain, to my mind, simply mad it feasible to play a fighter than didn't power attack all the time.

And uneven power level gave different players, different times to be the main character,which they all liked. Granted I can preserve that,albeit with more effort.

But what you just said, seems to elegantly put some of what im feeling and couldnt quite put a finger on. Regardless, I will be trying.