D&D 5E Evil Campaign?
- Thread starter Matita
- Start date
I get what you're saying, there's one thing though, a different PC my friend, really wants to play Chaotic Evil.
And he's insanely creative when he plays so I know he has something in mind he wants to do. But our DM is very adamant about not letting us be Chaotic Evil in this campaign.
Could you give me an example of Chaotic Evil character?
One with a Background,Goal, and Personality that would or could fit with a party?
What would his motivation be to actually follow a plan rather than try to kill us then everyone in the vicinity?
And he's insanely creative when he plays so I know he has something in mind he wants to do. But our DM is very adamant about not letting us be Chaotic Evil in this campaign.
Could you give me an example of Chaotic Evil character?
One with a Background,Goal, and Personality that would or could fit with a party?
What would his motivation be to actually follow a plan rather than try to kill us then everyone in the vicinity?
AaronOfBarbaria
Adventurer
Part 1) Isn't such an idiot to think "kill allies" helps him personally to any degree, and thus realizes that if his goal is to kill as much as possible that having a few allies helping him ramps up both the potency and number of potential victims.
Part 2) You know how Orcs are always represented as being a serious and ongoing threat to civilized cultures? Yeah, they are Chaotic Evil, they live in tribes, they mobilize organized forces (a.k.a. armies) towards a shared goal (kill all the [blank] where the blank is filled in by anyone not on that orc's chosen "team", whether that is some other orc tribe or everything not orc and not willing to help orcs kill everything else). Yes, their lack of long-term vision that a neutral evil or lawful evil creature/character might have hinders their ultimate goal of their "team", and them specifically, being the biggest & baddest... and yet it doesn't stop them from always being a threat.
Basically, Chaotic Evil doesn't mean inability to team up and be cooperative. It just means that the reason for teaming up and being cooperative is one that is probably arbitrarily violent, greedy, hateful, or because of bloodlust.
Oooooh I get it I get it, okay okay. Thank you I know how to present the idea with my friend to our DM
Watch the first few seasons of Game of Thrones. Cersei, certainly somewhere between Lawful and Neutral Evil but she loves her children, Tywin Lannister, perfect Lawful Evil who would do anything for his family. Ramsey Snow/Bolton, the poster boy for the worse sort of Chaotic Evil (but even he knows when to tone it down, at least in mixed company). Lord Bolton is a more refined Chaotic Evil- both, however have bonds that matter, be it the glory of their house, personal lineage, etc. Peter Baelish, seems to fit Neutral Evil and despite his dastardly nature, he loved Lady Stark. In any event, the characters are not paper-thin evil and exhibit a range of emotions, including love. It's really in the nature of the type of story you want to tell. The only drawback, it can be hard to even run them as antiheroes, and if it descends into characters just acting depraved, it ceases to be any sort of heroic fantasy, and I personally am not interested in roleplaying too many scenes of the player characters flaying prisoners alive or stuff like that.
Reflected_Shadows
First Post
1. Define evil. Make sure everyone at the table has the same ideal and expectation. To me, evil has nothing to do with "we rape the elf". To me, evil has more to do with "Yes, you want this medicine. Your town has the plague. But, I am the one who has the cure." Also define the reason for an evil campaign. Does the group really want to experience and immerse in characters who are evil - or do they just want the "freedom" to rape commoners, chop down guards, cuss at kings and otherwise perform destructive gameplay behaviors "because I am evil". Sometimes, playing evil is just a way to say "Being good has too many rules so I want real freedom" - and other times it is just a way to say "Being evil will let me fulfill my inner sadistic glee". Yet other times it is just "Evil characters are more interesting than fluffy do-gooders". Everyone has a different reason for wanting to play evil. Narrow down, and define every person's reason, what they want to "get" out of evil that cannot be done with good, then ponder over whether the final result and expectation is actually even "evil".
2. I would suggest examining and reading stories with Intellectual Evil. The Prince by Niccolo Machiavelli is a good start. Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand (in fact, if you also look at Anthem, you can piece together a "mean jerk" worldview for evil that claims pragmatism).
3. Evil comes in different forms.
Pragmatic Evil - The governor is horrified. There are too many people, not enough food, a plague is spreading but - a hurricane hits the city. He closes the inner gates, opens the dikes and allows the flooding to solve the problems of "too many poor people".
Selfish Evil - Mean Mitt Baine is not enslaving children. He is just profiting from investments in firms that permit children to work.
"I am doing nothing wrong... I am creating Jobs for poor families", he says with a smile.
Necessary Evil - Quintin was horrified at the pile of enemy corpses. He is even more horrified at the 15 year old pregnant teenager holding a crossbow. He knows that if she does not die, she will kill him. If he disables her, that child will someday come for revenge. He has few options, but he has his own family to get home to at the end of the war. The child must die. It is necessary. Of course, the nearby witness pretending to be dead who watches his wife/sister die will see the same act as "cold blooded murder".
Subjective Evil - Randy was fired by his boss boss, which will result in Randy becoming homeless. Boss sentenced Randy to poverty! He wants to take away Randy's life, Randy will take away his. "You want to call me evil? You want me to be evicted, divorced, starve and die - my babies to be hungry and have no opportunity in life! You are the evil one!"
Forced Evil - "I do not have the option of good", says Lestat. "I will always be evil, even if I cannot help it. I don't want to be evil, but to continue my life means ending the life of others - yet allowing myself to die means ending the wonderful potentials I can still give the world over the next thousand years...".
Othering-Evil - "Filthy goblins are all bad! Every one of them!" - "Those filthy democrats/republicans are the reason for all our woes!". The idea is that someone else is an "other", and for being an "other", they are evil. Think about extreme racists - other races are evil. Or an extreme cult who thinks all other religions are going to hell, or even better, that other religions have an active pact with a demon to undermine the one true faith. The idea is that "just being the other" is good enough to make someone evil. This of course, might speak more about the inner-evil of the person who is "Othering", rather than the person who is targeted.
4. Lastly, Evil is not usually a bunch of goons sitting around the table snickering about how they are taking over the world. On the other hand, evil is a product of the environment. Evil is a product of life experience. Evil is what happens when The Joker snapped. Many "evil" people are the product of a screwed up environment, screwed up background, mental disorders and destructive or toxic personality traits. Evil usually self-identifies as good. Fred Phelps of Westboro Baptist Church, Adolph Hitler and Vlad Tepes all viewed themselves as moral heroes and self-identified as good people. Even when evil knows it is evil, there is a cognitive bias that recolors things.
2. I would suggest examining and reading stories with Intellectual Evil. The Prince by Niccolo Machiavelli is a good start. Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand (in fact, if you also look at Anthem, you can piece together a "mean jerk" worldview for evil that claims pragmatism).
3. Evil comes in different forms.
Pragmatic Evil - The governor is horrified. There are too many people, not enough food, a plague is spreading but - a hurricane hits the city. He closes the inner gates, opens the dikes and allows the flooding to solve the problems of "too many poor people".
Selfish Evil - Mean Mitt Baine is not enslaving children. He is just profiting from investments in firms that permit children to work.
"I am doing nothing wrong... I am creating Jobs for poor families", he says with a smile.
Necessary Evil - Quintin was horrified at the pile of enemy corpses. He is even more horrified at the 15 year old pregnant teenager holding a crossbow. He knows that if she does not die, she will kill him. If he disables her, that child will someday come for revenge. He has few options, but he has his own family to get home to at the end of the war. The child must die. It is necessary. Of course, the nearby witness pretending to be dead who watches his wife/sister die will see the same act as "cold blooded murder".
Subjective Evil - Randy was fired by his boss boss, which will result in Randy becoming homeless. Boss sentenced Randy to poverty! He wants to take away Randy's life, Randy will take away his. "You want to call me evil? You want me to be evicted, divorced, starve and die - my babies to be hungry and have no opportunity in life! You are the evil one!"
Forced Evil - "I do not have the option of good", says Lestat. "I will always be evil, even if I cannot help it. I don't want to be evil, but to continue my life means ending the life of others - yet allowing myself to die means ending the wonderful potentials I can still give the world over the next thousand years...".
Othering-Evil - "Filthy goblins are all bad! Every one of them!" - "Those filthy democrats/republicans are the reason for all our woes!". The idea is that someone else is an "other", and for being an "other", they are evil. Think about extreme racists - other races are evil. Or an extreme cult who thinks all other religions are going to hell, or even better, that other religions have an active pact with a demon to undermine the one true faith. The idea is that "just being the other" is good enough to make someone evil. This of course, might speak more about the inner-evil of the person who is "Othering", rather than the person who is targeted.
4. Lastly, Evil is not usually a bunch of goons sitting around the table snickering about how they are taking over the world. On the other hand, evil is a product of the environment. Evil is a product of life experience. Evil is what happens when The Joker snapped. Many "evil" people are the product of a screwed up environment, screwed up background, mental disorders and destructive or toxic personality traits. Evil usually self-identifies as good. Fred Phelps of Westboro Baptist Church, Adolph Hitler and Vlad Tepes all viewed themselves as moral heroes and self-identified as good people. Even when evil knows it is evil, there is a cognitive bias that recolors things.
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John R Davis
Hero
Hi. Good topic. Forgive slight plug
Here, is my draft primer / players guide for my Kingslayer AP. Its free.
http://http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/174160/Kingslayer-Adventure-Path-Primer-and-Guide
In it I try to outline my opinion of how an evil camapign could be played
The AP itself is for CE PCs who initially are in the thrall/sway/enamored/worship a marilith.
It is written for PF but only because I wanted to make use of its kingdom buidling/armies/infamy etc rules
A brief summary
Discuss beforehand, have a good slot zero. What happens 'on screen', what happens 'off screen'
Beware of surprises. The PCs wont hang around in Inns waiting an employee. They may burn, rob etc the Inn.
The players will feel 'freer', which is why a sandbox is the way forward IMO
the art-free first 2 modules are here (only a dollar each)
If I turn this to a full one KS I will do a 5th and OSR version as well.
http://http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/174159/Kingslayer-Part-1-Storm-The-Gates
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/174279/Kingslayer-Part-2-Into-The-Breach
Thanks
John
Here, is my draft primer / players guide for my Kingslayer AP. Its free.
http://http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/174160/Kingslayer-Adventure-Path-Primer-and-Guide
In it I try to outline my opinion of how an evil camapign could be played
The AP itself is for CE PCs who initially are in the thrall/sway/enamored/worship a marilith.
It is written for PF but only because I wanted to make use of its kingdom buidling/armies/infamy etc rules
A brief summary
Discuss beforehand, have a good slot zero. What happens 'on screen', what happens 'off screen'
Beware of surprises. The PCs wont hang around in Inns waiting an employee. They may burn, rob etc the Inn.
The players will feel 'freer', which is why a sandbox is the way forward IMO
the art-free first 2 modules are here (only a dollar each)
If I turn this to a full one KS I will do a 5th and OSR version as well.
http://http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/174159/Kingslayer-Part-1-Storm-The-Gates
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/174279/Kingslayer-Part-2-Into-The-Breach
Thanks
John
So these are the Evil characters we have so far, both are Lawful Evil, but if you think based off their personalities they should be different let me know.
So far we have a Power Hungry Seer Wizard who wants the downfall of Humanity but is patiently waiting for the opportunity he foresaw in a dream to arise so he can become a being of great power to mow down all those who've opposed him including his abusive family and all those who saw him as a dirty Drow or a degenerate coming from a prominent aristocratic warrior family he decided to study magic which made him an outcast in his own home with less of a word than his siblings.
So he craves Attention and Power however he's very patient and this is reflected in he has been patiently waiting and working towards his opportunity for over 100 years, he describes his power as "A vengeful strength that will rule over the weak and cover the land in brimstone." He worships Sargonnas. He saw in his vision that being a Seer was the path to obtaining his power so integrating other characters into his story shouldn't be too hard. So we have a Drow Divination Wizard.
Personality: Quiet and Conserved, I save my words carefully. I tend to think I'm smarter than most people and because I thought it, i'm most likely correct.
Ideal: Patience is a virtue.
Bond: My spellbook, sometimes it gives me visions of the future, it's the only thing that has never let me down.
A student of mine. He made me smile once, I still keep in slight contact with him, I suppose he's the closest thing I have to a..."Friend"
Flaw: I'm horrible when it comes to talking to people. I've remembered every insult, every look, every whisper, and every person whose ever waved their might over me. I imagine them all burning under the heat that is my inner wrath.
Second we have a lady bard, her fathers reputation was destroyed as he was accused of a murder and stoned,(The PC is still
flushing that part out.) because of that she holds an animosity for Nobility and those of high political and Social power. Being a
master forger and master of disguise, she proposes herself as an entertainer and sneaks her way into the livelyhood of the Upper
Class and through months or years of sneaking discovers a persons weakness, their fear, their habits one of her famous acts was
casting Prestidigitation on an Esteemed Philanthropist on the way to a dinner in his honor to dirty his robes, on the way back to his
home to change, she cast disguise self onto her and beat several children and his wife, running out of the dinner hall and when the
actual man returned was stripped of his position This man constantly tracks her actually, trying to clear his name, gain back his
position and win back the love of his wife. She gains a sadistic pleasure from spreading lies and watching the lives of specifically
innocent people fall to shreds. < The background isn't 100% complete but I like her alot
Personality: Vindictive and Trickstery, I gain personal pleasure from watching the lives of the esteemed fall apart, I guess I'm a sadist?
Ideals: DoGooders, and those of high social class have a place: Rock Bottom, and I intend to help them get there.
Bond: I commune with :Insert Trickster God: monthly sometimes weekly I strive to obtain their power and do their will.
Flaw: I find myself picking things up that aren't mine. And Keeping them. Whoops. I'm somewhat of a "Pathological Liar."
Those are the two characters we have, in our soon to be evil campaign, so right now me and my DM see a very good campaign
idea that we only need to discover the motivation for the last character to clarify if it will work.
So far we have a Power Hungry Seer Wizard who wants the downfall of Humanity but is patiently waiting for the opportunity he foresaw in a dream to arise so he can become a being of great power to mow down all those who've opposed him including his abusive family and all those who saw him as a dirty Drow or a degenerate coming from a prominent aristocratic warrior family he decided to study magic which made him an outcast in his own home with less of a word than his siblings.
So he craves Attention and Power however he's very patient and this is reflected in he has been patiently waiting and working towards his opportunity for over 100 years, he describes his power as "A vengeful strength that will rule over the weak and cover the land in brimstone." He worships Sargonnas. He saw in his vision that being a Seer was the path to obtaining his power so integrating other characters into his story shouldn't be too hard. So we have a Drow Divination Wizard.
Personality: Quiet and Conserved, I save my words carefully. I tend to think I'm smarter than most people and because I thought it, i'm most likely correct.
Ideal: Patience is a virtue.
Bond: My spellbook, sometimes it gives me visions of the future, it's the only thing that has never let me down.
A student of mine. He made me smile once, I still keep in slight contact with him, I suppose he's the closest thing I have to a..."Friend"
Flaw: I'm horrible when it comes to talking to people. I've remembered every insult, every look, every whisper, and every person whose ever waved their might over me. I imagine them all burning under the heat that is my inner wrath.
Second we have a lady bard, her fathers reputation was destroyed as he was accused of a murder and stoned,(The PC is still
flushing that part out.) because of that she holds an animosity for Nobility and those of high political and Social power. Being a
master forger and master of disguise, she proposes herself as an entertainer and sneaks her way into the livelyhood of the Upper
Class and through months or years of sneaking discovers a persons weakness, their fear, their habits one of her famous acts was
casting Prestidigitation on an Esteemed Philanthropist on the way to a dinner in his honor to dirty his robes, on the way back to his
home to change, she cast disguise self onto her and beat several children and his wife, running out of the dinner hall and when the
actual man returned was stripped of his position This man constantly tracks her actually, trying to clear his name, gain back his
position and win back the love of his wife. She gains a sadistic pleasure from spreading lies and watching the lives of specifically
innocent people fall to shreds. < The background isn't 100% complete but I like her alot
Personality: Vindictive and Trickstery, I gain personal pleasure from watching the lives of the esteemed fall apart, I guess I'm a sadist?
Ideals: DoGooders, and those of high social class have a place: Rock Bottom, and I intend to help them get there.
Bond: I commune with :Insert Trickster God: monthly sometimes weekly I strive to obtain their power and do their will.
Flaw: I find myself picking things up that aren't mine. And Keeping them. Whoops. I'm somewhat of a "Pathological Liar."
Those are the two characters we have, in our soon to be evil campaign, so right now me and my DM see a very good campaign
idea that we only need to discover the motivation for the last character to clarify if it will work.
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True Evil does not need to fool itself into believing that it is benefiting everyone, as long as it gets what it wants.
Ralif Redhammer
Legend
My brother and I were just discussing how to do this. How to make a Chaotic Evil character that still can get along with the rest of the party, and isn’t just a basic murderhobo.
The conclusion I came to is that I'd make a regular character, heck, maybe even a friendly nice fellow, but with a reprehensible trait. Like, he's a cannibal, or an outright sadist. Think a version of Hannibal or Dexter. Maybe even one of the Boltons from Game of Thrones.
The conclusion I came to is that I'd make a regular character, heck, maybe even a friendly nice fellow, but with a reprehensible trait. Like, he's a cannibal, or an outright sadist. Think a version of Hannibal or Dexter. Maybe even one of the Boltons from Game of Thrones.
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