D&D (2024) Experienced DMs, how useful is the 2024 DMG to you?

[Ruin Explorer]

Exception-based design isn't why the DMG is bad.

I agree, it is essentially why the DMG, PHB and MM are separate books though. It's also why basically all the games which have separate "DM's" books as core books have them (as opposed to those where it's an optional extra that even the DM doesn't need) - they're heckin chonkers as result of exception-based design necessarily taking up huge amounts of space .

@Stormonu is also right that there's an element of luxury involved. But that's how D&D has been positioned in the RPG market, and it's how WotC wants it positioned - indeed WotC wants to push further in this direction.

 

[Neonchameleon]

A lot of what you're saying is:

• People are learning D&D via YouTube/Twitch/Google because 2014's DMG is terrible

What I'm saying is:

• People are learning via YouTube/Twitch/Google because they are raised on the internet, not books, and that is how they get their information now

Why not both?

 

[Hussar]

Heh. It looks like the 2024 DMG is aimed at someone like me.

Monster creation rules are scaled back? Fantastic. Ten years of 5e and I never once used them.

No pages of random dungeon making? Fantastic. Ten years and never used them. They made sense forty years ago in the time before home computers and the Internet when players didn’t actually know what you might find in a dungeon. Now? In the age of things like Diablo or various Souls games? We know what’s in a dungeon thanks. We don’t need ten pages of filler that are never used.

Sample adventures? Fantastic. Sample setting? Even better. New mechanics like the Bastion system? I’m in.

It’s all about priorities. For me? The stuff that people are bemoaning that was cut is stuff I’ve never actually used and won’t miss at all.

 

[grimmgoose]

Why not both?

The goldilocks people you're referring to are "millennials"

Jokes aside, I admitted that was conjecture. My friend and I run a TTRPG thing for a licensed therapy clinic, and we work with a lot of Gen Z/Gen Alpha kids. We wish they'd crack open books more, but they were handed an iPad in the womb.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I really can't agree here after the 2010s and the long list of Powered By The Apocalypse systems. Which are absolutely exception based and tend to be fairly small. DM's books are a D&D thing so far as I can tell.

PtbA game books are vastly larger than those of systems doing similar things in a non-exception-based way. Thanks to things like Dungeon World and City of Mists they're actually a pretty good supporting argument for "exception-based = larger". My argument isn't "exception-based requires DMG", it's "exception based = larger body of written material", and once you get past a certain size a two or three book format starts making sense.

 

[Selas]

Sample adventures? Fantastic. Sample setting? Even better. New mechanics like the Bastion system? I’m in.

The sample adventures are pretty decent, and should be a good example on pacing for an adventuring day

 

[Neonchameleon]

PtbA game books are vastly larger than those of systems doing similar things in a non-exception-based way. Thanks to things like Dungeon World and City of Mists they're actually a pretty good supporting argument for "exception-based = larger". My argument isn't "exception-based requires DMG", it's "exception based = larger body of written material", and once you get past a certain size a two or three book format starts making sense.

Which games do you think do similar things to Apocalypse World itself and try to e.g. run domain management rules plus gang control rules off a relatively light ruleset with success with consequences mechanics?

For that matter which systems run long spell lists without exception based design? GURPS doesn't; I don't think there are many non exception based design games that go into deep detail.

 

[Hussar]

The sample adventures are pretty decent, and should be a good example on pacing for an adventuring day

I mean, sure. Sample adventures are probably the best way to teach new DM's how to do stuff. It's basically how most people IMO, learn the game. Going all the way back to the old Basic/Expert boxes and Keep on the Borderlands. IT does seem like a great idea to have a couple in the DMG.

 

[Parmandur]

I mean, sure. Sample adventures are probably the best way to teach new DM's how to do stuff. It's basically how most people IMO, learn the game. Going all the way back to the old Basic/Expert boxes and Keep on the Borderlands. IT does seem like a great idea to have a couple in the DMG.

They are super barebones, too, but probably better for it: templates of how to quickly throw together a week's play.

 

[Azzy]

I don't block people simply because I disagree with them.

I think it's healthy to cut toxic people out of one's life. Whether online or offline.