Expertise and Haste question

[the Jester]

I've always consistently ruled that expertise or power attack lasts until your next turn since reading "action" literally could mean you make an attack with a 5-point expertise, take a move action to tumble in on another opponent, and then your expertise is gone- so you took a -5 to hit for no bonus. That seems wrong to me.

And if it won't work against you it shouldn't work for you either; that's only fair.

 

[Artoomis]

No it doesn't. With Haste you still only have your round. You just get to do more in your round. Everything you do takes place in that 6 seconds no matter how many Standard, Partial, ME, Free, and non actions you take.

Right and Wrong, at the same time.

Correct in that Haste does not grant you an extra round - but it does grant an extra (partial) action.

Anything that is restricted per round remains so with Haste.

The two items under discussion here are not restricted per round. They last until your next action, which is why you can, say, Power Attack with you Partial Action, and then make a full attack without Power Attack still active, using a strict reading of the rules.

This, of course, all becomes moot if Haste is changed to be more like d20 Modern, which I personally think would be a good thing as it is overpowered now.

Interesting side note: You could, in theory, in a regular (non-Hasted round) make a single Power Attack type of attack and that take some Move-Equivalent Action and have the Power Attack ended, so any possible AoO would be at your normal attack bonus. Interesting thought, no?

 

[Darklone]

This is sick and means to me only that Expertise wasn't described properly with haste in mind.

Common sense over wording.

 

[Artoomis]

This is sick and means to me only that Expertise wasn't described properly with haste in mind.

Common sense over wording.

Perhaps what it really means is that Haste was "upgraded" from 2e in the wrong way?

 

[Mahali]

Right and Wrong, at the same time.

Correct in that Haste does not grant you an extra round - but it does grant an extra (partial) action.

Anything that is restricted per round remains so with Haste.

The two items under discussion here are not restricted per round. They last until your next action, which is why you can, say, Power Attack with you Partial Action, and then make a full attack without Power Attack still active, using a strict reading of the rules.

This, of course, all becomes moot if Haste is changed to be more like d20 Modern, which I personally think would be a good thing as it is overpowered now.

Interesting side note: You could, in theory, in a regular (non-Hasted round) make a single Power Attack type of attack and that take some Move-Equivalent Action and have the Power Attack ended, so any possible AoO would be at your normal attack bonus. Interesting thought, no?

The problem with that as I've pointed out before on this subject (different thread) was that by your clarifications you can't drop anything or even speak after attacking. After all those are a free action and nonaction.

 

[Artoomis]

The problem with that as I've pointed out before on this subject (different thread) was that by your clarifications you can't drop anything or even speak after attacking. After all those are a free action and nonaction.

No, because they aren't really actions. From the below, it seems clear that the "actions" for this purpose cannot include those that can be done while doing another action - leaving MEA, Partial Actions, Standard Actions and Full Round Actions all to count as "actions." There is nothing in an MEA to suggest that it would not be considered an action - indeed, a couple of MEA's are "Control a frightened mount" and "Load a light crossbow," both of which seem very "action-like" things and take their own time in the round to do.

Not an Action: Some activities are not even considered free actions. They literally don't take any time at all to do and are considered an inherent part of doing something else.

Free Action: A combatant can perform one or more free actions while taking another action normally. However, the DM puts reasonable limits on what a combatant can really do for free.

Partial Action: As a general rule, a combatant can do as much with a partial action as a combatant could with a standard action minus a move. Typically, a combatant may take a 5-foot step as part of a partial action.

Move-Equivalent Action: Move-equivalent actions take the place of movement in a standard action or take the place of an entire partial action. The combatant can normally also take a 5 foot step.

Standard Action: A standard action allows a combatant to do something and move a combatant's indicated speed during a combat round. A combatant can move before or after performing the activity of the action.

Full-Round Action: A full-round action consumes all a combatant's effort during a round. The only movement a combatant can take during a full- round action is a 5-foot step before, during, or after the action. A combatant can also perform free actions. Some full-round actions do not allow a 5-foot step.