Extend Spell with "ramped" damage question

[JesterPoet]

If you cast a spell with damage that ramps up and down, such as heat metal, but cast it extended, how do you figure the damage (and how did you determine your ruling on that)?

For example... does an extended heat metal spell do:

0
0
1d4
1d4
2d4
2d4
2d4
2d4
2d4
2d4
1d4
1d4
0
0

That seems problematic to me, because, while I do more damage overall, my spell now potentially takes longer to damage the creature as severely (if at all)... which makes it more of a threat as it stays around longer.

The alternative, however, seems to be

0
1d4
2d4
2d4
2d4
2d4
2d4
2d4
2d4
2d4
2d4
2d4
1d4
0

Which doesn't totally seem right either. Though, it seems to make sense at least in that it shouldn't take any longer for the metal to heat up. I'd be interested to know what others do in this situation and why....

Thanks!

 

[Pyrex]

This is another one of those cases where there is no "official" answer.

If it came up in my game I'd go with the second progression. It's fairly reasonable for a 3rd level spell.

You think Heat Metal is bad, just go take a look at Creeping Cold from MotW...

 

[the Jester]

Well, Extend Spell doesn't say anything about slowing down the effects of a spell, so I'd go with the second progression.

 

[Cheiromancer]

I wouldn't allow such a spell to be extended. It has a built in time-limit of 7 rounds which trumps the extension.

The logic is the same as for a spell with a duration of "1 round/level, to a maximum of 20 rounds." If you are 10th level or less, the spell can be extended. If you are over 10th level, the spell can only be extended to a maximum of 20 rounds. And if you are 20th level or higher, there is no point in extending it.

Spells given a fixed duration should be treated as having their duration capped at that duration.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I wouldn't allow such a spell to be extended. It has a built in time-limit of 7 rounds which trumps the extension.

I don't agree with that, but I could see a reading that would give the same result.

The Extended Heat Metal would last 14 rounds. For rounds 1-7, you look up the table to find the effect. For rounds 8-14, you look up the table... and since no effect is listed, nothing happens. The creature would still radiate Transmutation [Fire] until the end of round 14, and it might protect one of his buffs from an Area dispel, but that's all.

However, this reading has a different effect with Creeping Cold, which does cater for more rounds - 1d6 cumulative damage for each round the spell is in effect, so it would continue to work its way up to 6d6 in round 6.

-Hyp.

 

[Cheiromancer]

Your rule is reasonable, but I am hesitant to adopt it. My difficulty lies in the fact that Greater Creeping Cold is a 7th level druid spell which, for a 20th level caster, does exactly what you describe; increase to 6d6 damage over 6 rounds. Even approximately reproducing a 7th level spell is too much to expect from an extended 2nd level spell (the greater creeping cold has a higher save DC, but I don't think that is really significant).

My conclusion is to not allow a fixed duration spell to be extended. Though DMs could allow it on a case by case basis, of course.