Factotum or Rogue/Swash Need help desiding

[tankiller]

I'm going to be in a new game and I was looking through some books that i have never read and saw the Factotum and I really like the class but I also like the idea Rogue/Swash build. So I was woundering what you guys thought about the 2 and which one would generally play better (I am in an Undead heavy world if that matters alot). The Rogue/Swash would be twf and the Factotum would probaly use a bow. All I know about the rest of the party is that there will be a Fighter, Wizard, Dragon Shaman and maybe a monk, then there will be 4 or 5 other characters (Its a big group).

Thank you for any thoughts ahead of time.

 

[Empirate]

Well, Undead heavy sounds like sneak attack will be a problem unless you get your hands on (two!) Truedeath Augment Crystals (Magic Item Compendium). So Factotum looks like the better bet to me: unlike a Rogue who can't sneak attack, the Factotum will always have something constructive to contribute. It's basically the "endless possibilities" class in 3.5. That said, Rogue/Swashbuckler (I guess you'll take Rogue 4/Swash 16, with Daring Outlaw feat) can be a tough mofo and will likely have more staying power and higher outright damage output whenever you can sneak attack as a full attack.

Your choice: do you wanna be a brawler (yeah, I know, elegant and stuff, but mechanically you go there and whack things for a bunch of damage) - or do you wanna be Mr. Versatile?

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

Factotum gets a lay on hands ability called Opportunistic Piety at level 5, allowing him to channel 2x level + Int Mod. positive energy to heal or hurt undead. Or, instead of dealing damage to undead, he can Turn Undead, cleric level equal to his Factotum level. He can do this 3+ Wis mod/day.

A Rogue can't do that.

This ability will be helpful at level 5, but will fall way behind the things a cleric could do at higher levels. Just something to consider.

 

[emoplato]

The penetrating strike variant still allows for half sneak attack damage, replace trap sense.

 

[tankiller]

Thank you all for the replies. They have helped. Would an archery build be effective on a factotum?

 

[Jackinthegreen]

Factotums typically do best in melee as trippers and such due to Brains over Brawn. If you want some ideas, take a look at The Factotum's Handbook. It's entirely possible to make an effective ranged Factotum.

@RUMBLETiGER : Opportunistic Piety is based off of Wisdom, not Intelligence.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Not for a long time. An archer factotum is presumably relying on extra standard actions to use for manyshot, but he obtains neither until mid levels (9 for Manyshot due to BAB; 8 or 11 for extra standard actions, I forget). Even then, you're burning a lot of inspiration points for not much damage.

If you wanted to make a Factotum, you're best off utilizing Brains Over Brawn to make a grappler or tripper. Tripper being better since the medium BAB will hurt your grappling ability, and RAW I'm not sure Brains Over Brawn benefits grapple... That and cashing in on having every skill ever printed in the game as a class skill.

If you did Rogue/Swashbuckler (with the Daring Outlaw feat, I'd hope!), you can grab Penetrating Strike from Dungeonscape as mentioned above and do alright. Also look into Staggering Strike (C.Adventurer) if doing melee and Craven (Champions of Ruin) feats, the latter being great for ANY rogue.

Also try to grab the Arcane Stunt alt. class feature for Swashbucklers from C.Mage. Trades your crappy Grace for some cool swift action spell-like abilities, Blur being my favorite. Obviously, since Daring Outlaw lists Grace +1 as a requirement, you'd need DM houserule/permission...

 

[emoplato]

Also if you are going with rogue/swashbuckler dualies get the sheild of blades variant replace that insanely limited and finicky dodge with a guaranteed shield bonus that advances the same way, applies to everyone, and not limited to melee. You do actually need to attack to use it, but take StreamoftheSky's advice you will find movement and opportunity to attack not to be a problem.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Eh, if he expects to reach level 12 or beyond, I'd take the Dodge and hold out for an animated shield. Also, similar to the problem with swapping Grace, Daring Outlaw specifically advances Dodge, so that'd be another thing where he has to ask the DM, "hey, these things straight replace these things and still upgrade at the same level benchmarks...pretty please...?"

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

@RUMBLETiGER : Opportunistic Piety is based off of Wisdom, not Intelligence.

Thanks for catching that, this is the second time today I've tried to XP you.