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Falcon and winter solider

That would mean Natasha Romanov, an adult in the movie, would now be in her 60s. The Black Widow movie is set between Civil War and Infinity War./
Maybe she is in her 60s, but looks younger because of the Russian supersoldier serum (or because she is a skrull). I'm pretty sure the Black Widow movie at least features flashbacks to the 80s.
Captain America is created in 1942/43.
Just rewatched the movie. It's 43.
Zola got captured by Cap and the Howling Commandos, but Bucky falls from the train in that same operation. Zola is in Allied hands from that point forward, while the Russians have Bucky.

Zola probably wouldn't have a chance to be involved until much later, if at all, after the creation of SHIELD, and its infiltration by HYRDA. And even then, it probably wasn't Zola personally experimenting on Bucky - HYDRA infiltrated SHIELD, but I doubt that went so far as an American asset (Zola) actually going to work in Russia. Even in the modern day, HYDRA had to work at keeping itself secret. That would have been rather blatant.
Zola was Americanised under (real life) Operation Paperclip (TWS), which would mean he was working for the American government from 1946 onwards. That's before the foundation of SHIELD.
Also in TWS, Rogers concludes that Zola had been experimenting on Bucky when he rescued him, and that is what enabled him to survive the fall. Bucky has flashbacks that seem to imply Zola was involved after he became the Winter Soldier, although this could just be his addled memories. Zola died in the 1970s.
Isaiah says he was imprisoned for 30 years. That's 50s to 80s, or 60s to 90s. The Blip is 2010s.
Sure, but they continued to experiment on his blood after the freed him. Nagel says as much.
 
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Stalker0

Legend
Maybe she is in her 60s, but looks younger because of the Russian supersoldier serum (or because she is a skrull). I'm pretty sure the Black Widow movie at least features flashbacks to the 80s.
The MCU version of Natasha has never implied she had super solider serum like in some versions of the comics, just extreme training.

That said her background is still a mystery, so maybe they will go that route in her movie
 

Rabulias

Adventurer
Also, after seeing Zemo in this episode, it came to mind that there is an opportunity to do a Thunderbolts story during the Blip. Unfortunately there is not enough of a catalog of established villains still alive in the MCU to use, but the situation with the missing heroes seems perfect. It might be a harder sell with MCU Zemo's stance on superheroes (they could use someone else, I suppose), but what better way to undermine public trust in heroes than to gather a group of "heroes" who then betray everything they are supposed to stand for? And, as in the comics, Zemo's plan goes awry when some of the villains truly want to reform. A TV series might be a better format than a film for this.
 

FitzTheRuke

Legend
My only real complaint about the episode was the lack of SE Asian cast in the Madripoor scenes, its called out as an Island in the Indonesian Archipelago but apparently its entirely inhabited by white gangsters and black bar staff. It might not have been as much of an issue if race wasnt an important theme in the show...
That bit bothered me too. And my family. I paused when they mentioned Madripoor and explained to my wife and kids what Madripoor was - then we kept going and my daughter said right away, "Why are they all white, then?" The way I imagine Madripoor anyway, it should be at least 80% SE Asians. I don't have a problem with an Aussie crime boss, but the club-goers and streets should have been both more, and less diverse at the same time.
 

That bit bothered me too. And my family. I paused when they mentioned Madripoor and explained to my wife and kids what Madripoor was - then we kept going and my daughter said right away, "Why are they all white, then?" The way I imagine Madripoor anyway, it should be at least 80% SE Asians. I don't have a problem with an Aussie crime boss, but the club-goers and streets should have been both more, and less diverse at the same time.

All the SE-Asian people are in Hightown controlling everything? They would have been the people already there before the refugees from the return Snap started flooding the island. And we only saw a small part of Lowtown, a part controlled by non-Asians. Do you go to NYC and go into Chinatown or Harlem and wonder where the white folks are? Or into the parts controlled by the Mob and wonder why there are no non-white folks? Giant cities self-segregate, so could be just another subtle look at real-world race issues as represented in the show. Criminal elements can be also very insular and tend to not mix races, so even a mix of black and white people could be seen as odd. Also, we do not know if the five years of missing people pushed groups closer together or pulled them further apart.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Maybe she is in her 60s, but looks younger because of the Russian supersoldier serum

That she was so enhanced is, to my understanding, speculation. I think her movie does have someone enhanced (Red Guardian, played by David Harbour), but I don't believe we have evidence she is.

(or because she is a skrull). I'm pretty sure the Black Widow movie at least features flashbacks to the 80s.

When she's a child being raised to be an assassin, perhaps.

Also in TWS, Rogers concludes that Zola had been experimenting on Bucky when he rescued him, and that is what enabled him to survive the fall.

Rogers wasn't exactly a trained scientist. And Bucky showed no other signs of enhancement at that time - 'cuz, really, if he was enhanced, he wouldn't have fallen like that. So, I took that to be his speculation, not a timeline truth.

Sure, but they continued to experiment on his blood after the freed him. Nagel says as much.

Sure. Your wording just implied Isaiah had been captive for rather longer.
 

FitzTheRuke

Legend
All the SE-Asian people are in Hightown controlling everything? They would have been the people already there before the refugees from the return Snap started flooding the island. And we only saw a small part of Lowtown, a part controlled by non-Asians.

Sure, that's possible, I guess. Still strange.

Do you go to NYC and go into Chinatown or Harlem and wonder where the white folks are? Or into the parts controlled by the Mob and wonder why there are no non-white folks?
What a strange thing to ask someone. I find this question both dumb, and a little offensive, and also to not have anything to do with the show (or my comments about the show) at all. Was there some kind of big sign that said "Yankee-town" that I missed when they said they were going to Madripoor?

Giant cities self-segregate, so could be just another subtle look at real-world race issues as represented in the show. Criminal elements can be also very insular and tend to not mix races, so even a mix of black and white people could be seen as odd. Also, we do not know if the five years of missing people pushed groups closer together or pulled them further apart.
They segregate a little. I LIVE in a PacRim city with a Chinatown, a Japantown, a Little Italy, a Little India, etc etc. You still find people of every "race" in all of those places. In PARTICULAR at a nightclub. (And again, there was nothing to suggest that Lowtown Madripoor is some kind of Yankeetown, other than that it looked like it was).

Anyway, it was just an observation - where Madripoor is situated in the world there ought to be an majority of SE Asians there. It was strange to not really see... any? Or nearly none? It was unexpected. It doesn't need to be a bigger deal than that.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
I'm not enjoying this show nearly as much as Wandvision. It's fine -- I'm not hating it or anything, and I'll watch to the end -- but it's a bit too formulaic for me. I find it slightly boring. I think Loki will be more to my taste.
 
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FitzTheRuke

Legend
I'm not enjoying this show nearly as much as Wandvision. It's fine -- I'm not hating it or anything, and I'll watch to the end -- but it's a bit too formulaic for me. I think Loki will be more to my taste.
I didn't expect to like it as much as WandaVision when I saw the trailer (After WV it seemed a bit to DudeBro masculine and RahRah US militant for my taste) but I loved episode 1.

...Now I'm starting to cool on it, so I know what you mean. Maybe it'll surprise when it gets to its point. I AM looking forward to Loki, though!
 

Tonguez

A suffusion of yellow
That bit bothered me too. And my family. I paused when they mentioned Madripoor and explained to my wife and kids what Madripoor was - then we kept going and my daughter said right away, "Why are they all white, then?" The way I imagine Madripoor anyway, it should be at least 80% SE Asians. I don't have a problem with an Aussie crime boss, but the club-goers and streets should have been both more, and less diverse at the same time.
I would have been happy with just one :( just a wee nod, but the MCU still seems to have a problem with Asian representation.
Also, after seeing Zemo in this episode, it came to mind that there is an opportunity to do a Thunderbolts story during the Blip. Unfortunately there is not enough of a catalog of established villains still alive in the MCU to use, but the situation with the missing heroes seems perfect. It might be a harder sell with MCU Zemo's stance on superheroes (they could use someone else, I suppose), but what better way to undermine public trust in heroes than to gather a group of "heroes" who then betray everything they are supposed to stand for? And, as in the comics, Zemo's plan goes awry when some of the villains truly want to reform. A TV series might be a better format than a film for this.

With just MCU movie villains they could have a Thunderbolts comprised of Zemo, Abomination, Batroc, Vulture, Scorpion, Shocker, possibly Ghost (?). Justin Hammer is still around and Black Widow was in the Thunderbolts
dip into Marvel TV to get Bullseye and Bushmaster (hell bring DD and Luke Cage in for the ride too)

Also the Leader is still out there technically
 

I would have been happy with just one :( just a wee nod, but the MCU still seems to have a problem with Asian representation.

Well, the bad guys chasing them and trying to kill them were not Asians either, so they did not go that way, at least. Still, maybe that particular small part of Madripoor, just happened to be non-Asian. For X-men fans, it was also very non-Mutant. But at least they intentionally showed the Princess Bar, which is co-owned by Wolverine in the comics. Some of the filming on this was done after the pandemic started, so I am sure they were a lot more limited than usual for extras, and that could make a difference in this episode, if it was filmed after that. Sure, that just sounds like an excuse, but it could still be valid, because I highly doubt they would intentionally exclude a major group like that. Plus, did it all go by too quickly for me to see them, or were there no Hispanics represented in the episode either?

Okay, I found this about the filming process:

Filming for The Falcon and the Winter Soldier began in October 2019 in Atlanta. The limited series was filmed in various locations around the city through December 2019. In January 2020 filming was expected to take place in Puerto Rico for two weeks, but production on the island was suspended due to a series of earthquakes there. The Falcon and the Winter Soldier also shut down in the early days of the COVID-19 pandemic. The cast and crew were actually in Prague at the height of COVID-19.

I would guess the club scene and Madripoor street scenes were done in Atlanta, before covid changed everything, because those scenes were too packed with people for the reality of post-covid filming.
 

hopeless

Explorer
Just a thought
What if the Sharon Carter they met isn't Sharon Carter?
That she's actually the Black Widow replacement using the same disguise gear Nat used in Winter Soldier near the end?
That would explain her presence there, why she helped them and was probably working for Ross.
Is that a possible explanation for what we've seen?
 

Tonguez

A suffusion of yellow
Well, the bad guys chasing them and trying to kill them were not Asians either, so they did not go that way, at least. Still, maybe that particular small part of Madripoor, just happened to be non-Asian. For X-men fans, it was also very non-Mutant. But at least they intentionally showed the Princess Bar, which is co-owned by Wolverine in the comics. Some of the filming on this was done after the pandemic started, so I am sure they were a lot more limited than usual for extras, and that could make a difference in this episode, if it was filmed after that. Sure, that just sounds like an excuse, but it could still be valid, because I highly doubt they would intentionally exclude a major group like that. Plus, did it all go by too quickly for me to see them, or were there no Hispanics represented in the episode either?

Okay, I found this about the filming process:

I would guess the club scene and Madripoor street scenes were done in Atlanta, before covid changed everything, because those scenes were too packed with people for the reality of post-covid filming.

there are 2000 Indonesians in Atlanta and something like 30000 'Asians and PI' so even with COVID a casting call for asian extras was easy enough. My first thought was actually of Wes Studi portrayal of Sagat in the Street Fighter movie (at least he was brown I suppose).
If they had shown even just one prominent SE Asian character, I would have shrugged it off and accepted Madripoor is a pirate enclave, with lots of foreign residents.

Also I'm not sure what your Hispanic comment has to do with anything, there are no 'Hispanics' in Indonesia
 

Also I'm not sure what your Hispanic comment has to do with anything, there are no 'Hispanics' in Indonesia

Madripoor is a giant melting-pot type city, as some people have said, and there would have been Hispanics out on the streets, and especially in a club scene, if we are being inclusive, as people want to be. I did have to look at the credits and one of the club people who had a speaking part is Hispanic, at least.
 

Stalker0

Legend
I'm always a fan of the "throw away lampshade", its not always perfect but it can get the job done.

For example, if Zemo had mentioned that high town was filled with the wealthy nationals, and lowtown was the poor foreigners....ok it explains all the whiteness. A single line, doesn't even have to take screen time, it can just be a voiceover as you are showing the scenery.
 

hopeless

Explorer
Or perhaps the locals stayed away as they were aware the place was going to be raided?
Well the person they came to meet was shot after all and it could be word filtered down and only those unaware were present thinking its odd but the newcomers didn't notice?
 

Or perhaps the locals stayed away as they were aware the place was going to be raided?
Well the person they came to meet was shot after all and it could be word filtered down and only those unaware were present thinking its odd but the newcomers didn't notice?

Maybe. The assassination and the phone alert of a bounty on their heads happened way too quickly. Someone set that up. And that person who snuck out of the club with the hoodie pulled over her head was probably Sharon. And then Sharon was in just the right part of town to shoot those two bounty hunters and save them. Too fishy for me. She is way more involved than she claims.
 


Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Just a thought
What if the Sharon Carter they met isn't Sharon Carter?
That she's actually the Black Widow replacement using the same disguise gear Nat used in Winter Soldier near the end?
That would explain her presence there, why she helped them and was probably working for Ross.
Is that a possible explanation for what we've seen?

So, what if... everyone who came back in The Blip is actually a Dire Wraith!?!

Is it possible? Sure. Virtually anything is possible. Is there any actual reason to think that's what is happening, though? I don't know of any.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Or perhaps the locals stayed away as they were aware the place was going to be raided?

Explanations that are not present in the text that we have to speculate into being are not suitable excuse for the casting failure.

The simplest explanation is simply that nobody thought about it. The irony that they make the point about systemic racism in one episode, and then do it in the next, is pretty darned thick.
 
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