Falcon and winter solider

[Umbran]

I don't know, he seemed genuinely wanting to do good.

Sure, but... whose version of "good"? We have not yet seen John Walker's ethos, if you will.

 

[Marc_C]

That's small beer compared to some, thinking of no UK in particular...

You want to rephrase that. The suffering of 80 mentally ill patient who were electroshocked until they were mindless is cruel and shouldn't be belittled.

 

[Umbran]

That's small beer compared to some, thinking of no UK in particular...

Mod Note:

Maybe getting into abuse-sizing is not terribly constructive, or respectful of the victims. So, let's not do that again, okay, folks?

 

[MoonSong]

Sure, but... whose version of "good"? We have not yet seen John Walker's ethos, if you will.

I meant Good the noun, not good the adjective.(Every culture, subculture and group will have different ideas of which actions are good -the adjective-, these are determined by ethos. Yet, everybody shares a basic idea of "Good" -the noun, the higher concept-. We disagree on the application of good -the adjective-, but this idea of Good -the noun- is essentially universal. No culture outright dismisses Good, they just disagree on which things are good and which aren't)

 

[Older Beholder]

A guy in my office watches this stuff with his kid, and he always calls it ‘Falcon and the Snowman’

 

[Tonguez]

You can be a dick no matter which side you are on!

Walker seems sincere to me (which doesn't preclude him being dickish sometimes). Bucky's issue is with the people giving him orders - the US government. And this is the point he is trying to make to Sam by taking him to see Isaiah. I think the direction the show is taking is that Captain America needs to be separate from the state. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? That white-haired senator in the first episode seemed very fishy to me.

Which brings me to the Flag Smashers. Maybe they have a point? Whatever, and obvious flag to be smashed is the one on Captain America's suit. I wouldn't be surprised if Walker is killed. Or, if he survives, he, or his bosses, might deicide he needs Super Soldier serum to do his job. And I think this is another issue the show ill address: do you need to be superhuman to be Captain America? Sam, like Walker, only has his skills (given that the same goes for Batman, I would say the answer is no).

I finally watched the first two episodes and although the first episode was okay it was the second episode that pulled me in, especially with the Isaiah Bradley scene (I like the actor, and the implications of racism, supersoldiers and governmental power).

In particular though I was intrigued with the implications of the Global Repatriation Council and their activities, which the Flag Smashers seem to be opposed to criticising the GRC for caring more about the returnees than thos who survived during the Blip.

Are they setting up the GRC as being ‘Big Government’ with US Agent and Battlestar as the oppressive hand of the system? Are the Flag Smashers actually misguided good guys who want to give vaccines to the poor, destroy symbols of toxic nationalism and create a global utopia?

Will Sam need to decide if Captain America is a Symbol of the US Military or is it about the independent values of the people? Is he a hero for upholding the Nation or for resisting its corruption?

Given the current state of the real world I’d be delighted if Marvel decides to explore some of those issues

.

 

[Maxperson]

You can be a dick no matter which side you are on!

Walker seems sincere to me (which doesn't preclude him being dickish sometimes). Bucky's issue is with the people giving him orders - the US government. And this is the point he is trying to make to Sam by taking him to see Isaiah. I think the direction the show is taking is that Captain America needs to be separate from the state. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? That white-haired senator in the first episode seemed very fishy to me.

Which brings me to the Flag Smashers. Maybe they have a point? Whatever, and obvious flag to be smashed is the one on Captain America's suit. I wouldn't be surprised if Walker is killed. Or, if he survives, he, or his bosses, might deicide he needs Super Soldier serum to do his job. And I think this is another issue the show ill address: do you need to be superhuman to be Captain America? Sam, like Walker, only has his skills (given that the same goes for Batman, I would say the answer is no).

As for the main villain, I would love to see Toby Jones' Zola back in some form. But that might be just wishful thinking on my part.

They already kinda implied that he was a natural super soldier. They said he was stronger, faster and smarter than everyone else and had won 3 medals of honor.

 

[Imaculata]

Given the current state of the real world I’d be delighted if Marvel decides to explore some of those issues.

I don't know when writing on this show began, but the topics of toxic nationalism and racism have never been more topical than right now.

I'm interested to see where they take this show and I hope they take some risks.

 

[Older Beholder]

As others have said, the second episode really got things going. I guess they need to if it’s only going to be 6 episodes.

I was thinking with 5 series to fill a year they’d each be 10 eps, but maybe ‘What if’ will have more episodes to make it up?

 

[Umbran]

Yet, everybody shares a basic idea of "Good" -the noun, the higher concept-.

Have you not seen tons of alignment arguments on these boards?