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Fall '03 Iron DM Tournament -- Wulf Ratbane is Iron DM!
- Thread starter Pielorinho
- Start date
el-remmen
Moderator Emeritus
Dave Turner said:Great entry, nemmerle. I can see where your reputation comes from.
Thank you.
But I recommend that you (and other competitors) withholf your comments unti lafter the judgement - as to not unduly influence the judge.
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I was TOTALLY freaking out when I could not post my entry and was planning on viewing it in preview form and do one last read over for errors or inconsistancies - but did not get a chance to (*crosses fingers*).
Usually, when I post an entry I am either damn proud of it or think it is
e - I will not say what I thought of this one until after the judging. 
Pielorinho
Iron Fist of Pelor
Okay! I've posted the judgment for the first round (whenever it goes through); look in the post just after Nemmerle's entry.
Wicht and Nifft, you guys are up next.
Nifft vs. Wicht
Ingredients
Poppy Field
Barghest
Skeletal Sphinx
Cracked Mirror
Nightmare
Oppression
As always, you have until 24 hours from this timestamp. No editing.
Good luck!
Daniel
Wicht and Nifft, you guys are up next.
Nifft vs. Wicht
Ingredients
Poppy Field
Barghest
Skeletal Sphinx
Cracked Mirror
Nightmare
Oppression
As always, you have until 24 hours from this timestamp. No editing.
Good luck!
Daniel
el-remmen
Moderator Emeritus
Thank you, Pielorinho.
And thank you Dave Turner for an excellent round. When I began to read your entry I said, "uh oh" - because I thought it was a lot more clearly presented and organized than my own. Also, your entyr had a more centralized location and theme - and I thought the use of the unicorn was excellent (much better than mine). I think if your entry had been a bit longer and you had explored the various encounters a bit more you would have (and should have) one. I just felt like it was about half-finished when I read it.
However a few comments on Pielorinho's comments about my entry (in the order I remember them in):
Shadowy Unicorn: I guess in my mind the shadow template was a convenient method of applying cool abiltiies to the creatures from the dark realm - and I did not see those creatures as actualy being of shadow. Thus, the unicorn could be golden and mistaken for Arrowheart. I was rather proud of the idea of the unicorn's perceived madness in terms of its change of behavior was because there were actually two unicorns. I guess I could have explained that better.
Shadow Mastiffs: Another thing I could have explained better - or at least fixed with the addition of one sentence. "The sheepdogs were not supposed to be gone longer than a day."
Knarr's Motivations: The betrayer's motivations were not power - he already had power. Rather, it was the testing of this power against the greatest foe of his mistress. It was kind of like being only a month two young to have fought in WWII or something - and forever hearing how tough of a fight it was against the Nazis when you consider yourself a great soldier (or something like that). And the pursuit of this hubris is what led to his downfall. He became what he hated.
The Broken Teeth: By making the site of the funeral the site of one of Elhonna Ber-Raysel's greatest battles and linking it as a kind of nexus between the worlds I thought I brought that all together rather well. Since Knarr needed a reason to draw everyone to that place. I wanted to figure out a way to link the story of the dragon buried there to the dark realm as well - but could not.
I look forward to the next round and will endeavor to do better. Sorry about the errors and typos - I had meant to look it over one last time - but in the hurry to try to get it posted and freaking out - I had to do without.
And thank you Dave Turner for an excellent round. When I began to read your entry I said, "uh oh" - because I thought it was a lot more clearly presented and organized than my own. Also, your entyr had a more centralized location and theme - and I thought the use of the unicorn was excellent (much better than mine). I think if your entry had been a bit longer and you had explored the various encounters a bit more you would have (and should have) one. I just felt like it was about half-finished when I read it.
However a few comments on Pielorinho's comments about my entry (in the order I remember them in):
Shadowy Unicorn: I guess in my mind the shadow template was a convenient method of applying cool abiltiies to the creatures from the dark realm - and I did not see those creatures as actualy being of shadow. Thus, the unicorn could be golden and mistaken for Arrowheart. I was rather proud of the idea of the unicorn's perceived madness in terms of its change of behavior was because there were actually two unicorns. I guess I could have explained that better.
Shadow Mastiffs: Another thing I could have explained better - or at least fixed with the addition of one sentence. "The sheepdogs were not supposed to be gone longer than a day."
Knarr's Motivations: The betrayer's motivations were not power - he already had power. Rather, it was the testing of this power against the greatest foe of his mistress. It was kind of like being only a month two young to have fought in WWII or something - and forever hearing how tough of a fight it was against the Nazis when you consider yourself a great soldier (or something like that). And the pursuit of this hubris is what led to his downfall. He became what he hated.
The Broken Teeth: By making the site of the funeral the site of one of Elhonna Ber-Raysel's greatest battles and linking it as a kind of nexus between the worlds I thought I brought that all together rather well. Since Knarr needed a reason to draw everyone to that place. I wanted to figure out a way to link the story of the dragon buried there to the dark realm as well - but could not.
I look forward to the next round and will endeavor to do better. Sorry about the errors and typos - I had meant to look it over one last time - but in the hurry to try to get it posted and freaking out - I had to do without.
Dave Turner
First Post
Here's some responses to the judging.
First, the most obvious one about the Broken Teeth. This omission was a result of my general harriedness towards the end. It was the one ingredient still unresolved as I neared the end and I had resigned myself to including it in a cheesy way (it was to be the name of Bereth's animal-companion-turned-shadow-mastiff). In the final rush, however, I forgot to splice it in.
It's interesting that you thought that the unicorn would have been stronger if he was somehow betraying the forest. That was actually something I had hoped would come through with the unicorn's refusal to do what had to be done. It was more of an "ongoing" betrayal than a completed one in the past. This aspect didn't get the attention I would have liked. Also, the unicorn was meant to betray the PCs in the fight with the shadow treant. I was trying to include several instances of betrayal in the scenario rather than one.
I thought it was funny that you considered my funeral an afterthought. I had hoped to avoid the idea of a funeral as a stage for a battle or event (as nemmerle used it) and try for something a bit different. I guess my intention didn't come across as clearly as I would have liked. Trying to innovate with the funeral was where most of my brainstorming time went, actually.
For what it's worth, here's a reworked version of the "highlights" I included at the end of my entry. If I had had another fifteen minutes (which is how long it took me to go back and rework the original "hightlights"), this is closer to what I would have wanted to present. I include them in the hope that anyone who might want to use some of the ideas in my scenario gets a better version of them.
<i>
The highlights of the adventure are:
- Making contact with Stratus: the PCs make contact with the remaining pure fey, who urge the PCs to seek out Nyrith on their behalf. Nyrith has not been seen by any of the pure fey since the corruption began. They fear he is dead or conducting some kind of losing campaign against the forces of shadow. In fact, Nyrith is afraid that he will come into contact with a corrupted creature and, in his weakened state, be killed.
- PCs visit the Deep Pool and contact Nyrith. He actually speaks with the PCs, since he recognizes them as strangers to the forest and doesn't fear them in the same way. If the PCs explain why they are there, Nyrith's paranoia gets the better of him. He seemingly welcomes the help of the PCs and asks them to help him slay a very nasty shadow treant that he has recently become aware of. Nyrith leads them through the forest to the treant and during a crucial moment in the battle, he teleports away from the PCs, hoping they'll be killed and preventing them from reporting back to the pure fey.
- Stratus hears of Nyrith's betrayal and resolves to follow his plan of attempting to transform Argen into the new Protector. He first wants to test the mettle of the PCs (since the story of the treant battle might have been a lie). He sends the PCs against a nest of shadow giant spiders to see if they are strong enough to fight their way to the Heart.
- The PCs must devise a way to get Nyrith into the Heart chamber against his will. They might trick him, capture him, polymorph him, or simply drag him in. Stratus, Argen, and the last few remaining pure fey accompany the PCs as they fight their way into the Heart Chamber.
- Due to the power of the Protector and the link to the Heart, the fey are unable to actually harm Nyrith, since that would be like harming themselves through the connection of the Heart. After Bereth and his minions are defeated, the PCs must fight Nyrith, who is delusional and thinks they're in league with Bereth. It falls to the PCs to actually kill the unicorn so that the funeral can take place.
- The funeral rite is somewhat successful and Argen assumes the mantle of Protector. She retains her centaur form, but becomes pure white with a unicorn's horn jutting from her human forehead. She uses the pure Heart-power to reverse the shadow corruption and Whispering Deep returns to normal.
</i>
Congratulations again, Nemmerle. Thanks for your criticism, Pielorinho!
First, the most obvious one about the Broken Teeth. This omission was a result of my general harriedness towards the end. It was the one ingredient still unresolved as I neared the end and I had resigned myself to including it in a cheesy way (it was to be the name of Bereth's animal-companion-turned-shadow-mastiff). In the final rush, however, I forgot to splice it in.
It's interesting that you thought that the unicorn would have been stronger if he was somehow betraying the forest. That was actually something I had hoped would come through with the unicorn's refusal to do what had to be done. It was more of an "ongoing" betrayal than a completed one in the past. This aspect didn't get the attention I would have liked. Also, the unicorn was meant to betray the PCs in the fight with the shadow treant. I was trying to include several instances of betrayal in the scenario rather than one.
I thought it was funny that you considered my funeral an afterthought. I had hoped to avoid the idea of a funeral as a stage for a battle or event (as nemmerle used it) and try for something a bit different. I guess my intention didn't come across as clearly as I would have liked. Trying to innovate with the funeral was where most of my brainstorming time went, actually.
For what it's worth, here's a reworked version of the "highlights" I included at the end of my entry. If I had had another fifteen minutes (which is how long it took me to go back and rework the original "hightlights"), this is closer to what I would have wanted to present. I include them in the hope that anyone who might want to use some of the ideas in my scenario gets a better version of them.
<i>
The highlights of the adventure are:
- Making contact with Stratus: the PCs make contact with the remaining pure fey, who urge the PCs to seek out Nyrith on their behalf. Nyrith has not been seen by any of the pure fey since the corruption began. They fear he is dead or conducting some kind of losing campaign against the forces of shadow. In fact, Nyrith is afraid that he will come into contact with a corrupted creature and, in his weakened state, be killed.
- PCs visit the Deep Pool and contact Nyrith. He actually speaks with the PCs, since he recognizes them as strangers to the forest and doesn't fear them in the same way. If the PCs explain why they are there, Nyrith's paranoia gets the better of him. He seemingly welcomes the help of the PCs and asks them to help him slay a very nasty shadow treant that he has recently become aware of. Nyrith leads them through the forest to the treant and during a crucial moment in the battle, he teleports away from the PCs, hoping they'll be killed and preventing them from reporting back to the pure fey.
- Stratus hears of Nyrith's betrayal and resolves to follow his plan of attempting to transform Argen into the new Protector. He first wants to test the mettle of the PCs (since the story of the treant battle might have been a lie). He sends the PCs against a nest of shadow giant spiders to see if they are strong enough to fight their way to the Heart.
- The PCs must devise a way to get Nyrith into the Heart chamber against his will. They might trick him, capture him, polymorph him, or simply drag him in. Stratus, Argen, and the last few remaining pure fey accompany the PCs as they fight their way into the Heart Chamber.
- Due to the power of the Protector and the link to the Heart, the fey are unable to actually harm Nyrith, since that would be like harming themselves through the connection of the Heart. After Bereth and his minions are defeated, the PCs must fight Nyrith, who is delusional and thinks they're in league with Bereth. It falls to the PCs to actually kill the unicorn so that the funeral can take place.
- The funeral rite is somewhat successful and Argen assumes the mantle of Protector. She retains her centaur form, but becomes pure white with a unicorn's horn jutting from her human forehead. She uses the pure Heart-power to reverse the shadow corruption and Whispering Deep returns to normal.
</i>
Congratulations again, Nemmerle. Thanks for your criticism, Pielorinho!
Pielorinho
Iron Fist of Pelor
Nem,
I can see what you're saying about the unicorn: it was more the inconsistency between the unicorn and the shadow mastiffs that bothered me. Why does the one look shadowy and the other not?
Knarr's motivations, on a second reading, were clearer; given the board's problems, I was writing up the judgment from memory.
As for the broken teeth, again, it was cool, and I missed the fact that it was Elhonna's greatest victory site; still, it would've been improved, as you note, by having a reason for being a nexus between worlds.
And given the board's wonkiness, typos are forgiven; I based my judgment on the emailed entry, before I knew how awful the boards were being.
This is fun! It's interesting to me how the randomly-chosen ingredients from the first round seemed to tie together thematically, and already I can see some ties for the random ingredients of the second round.
Daniel
I can see what you're saying about the unicorn: it was more the inconsistency between the unicorn and the shadow mastiffs that bothered me. Why does the one look shadowy and the other not?
Knarr's motivations, on a second reading, were clearer; given the board's problems, I was writing up the judgment from memory.
As for the broken teeth, again, it was cool, and I missed the fact that it was Elhonna's greatest victory site; still, it would've been improved, as you note, by having a reason for being a nexus between worlds.
And given the board's wonkiness, typos are forgiven; I based my judgment on the emailed entry, before I knew how awful the boards were being.
This is fun! It's interesting to me how the randomly-chosen ingredients from the first round seemed to tie together thematically, and already I can see some ties for the random ingredients of the second round.
Daniel
Pielorinho
Iron Fist of Pelor
Dave,
Honestly, if you'd put "broken teeth" in as the name of the wolf, it wouldn't have been that much better. Unless you'd had a cool and brief backstory for the wolf's name, of course, which figured into the adventure.
I sort of got the unicorn-betraying-the-forest vibe (I forgot when judging about the unicorn-betraying-the-PCs -- when I was re-skimming the thread for ingredients, I noticed the bolded betrayal only. Mea culpa in part). However, you mention that the unicorn believes its death will end all hope for the forest, and that the satyr's plan is pretty risky; these combine to make the unicorn's actions not much of a betrayal of the forest at all. If the unicorn instead believed that the satyr's plan was likely to work, I would've gotten a much stronger betrayal vibe there. In any case, a lesson for folks: if you want to use an ingredient repeatedly through an adventure, that's fine, but it's a good idea to bold each entry so I'll be sure to notice.
And the funeral either comes across as an afterthought or not much of a funeral: a funeral, IMO, is a formal gathering to honor the dead, not a quick incantation over the body to transfer magical energy. I envisioned what you were talking about occurring likely in the middle of a battle. With more detail, this could have worked (e.g., one fey might realize that the normal five-hour funeral could be foregone as long as the central phrase were spoken over the unicorn's corpse or something); as it was, it didn't feel very strong to me.
It's probably a good idea to set a deadline for yourself of several hours before the actual deadline: that'll give you a chance to go grab a sandwich, run an errand, then come back and reread your entry to tighten it up and look for places where themes and ingredients need to be brought more to the forefront, explained better, reorganized, etc.
Anyway, that's what the writing tutor in me says. Again, I think it was overall a quite strong entry, and the unicorn especially is a fantastic character. I hope you don't take my specific criticisms as a negation of my overall praise.
Daniel
Honestly, if you'd put "broken teeth" in as the name of the wolf, it wouldn't have been that much better
. Unless you'd had a cool and brief backstory for the wolf's name, of course, which figured into the adventure.I sort of got the unicorn-betraying-the-forest vibe (I forgot when judging about the unicorn-betraying-the-PCs -- when I was re-skimming the thread for ingredients, I noticed the bolded betrayal only. Mea culpa in part). However, you mention that the unicorn believes its death will end all hope for the forest, and that the satyr's plan is pretty risky; these combine to make the unicorn's actions not much of a betrayal of the forest at all. If the unicorn instead believed that the satyr's plan was likely to work, I would've gotten a much stronger betrayal vibe there. In any case, a lesson for folks: if you want to use an ingredient repeatedly through an adventure, that's fine, but it's a good idea to bold each entry so I'll be sure to notice.
And the funeral either comes across as an afterthought or not much of a funeral: a funeral, IMO, is a formal gathering to honor the dead, not a quick incantation over the body to transfer magical energy. I envisioned what you were talking about occurring likely in the middle of a battle. With more detail, this could have worked (e.g., one fey might realize that the normal five-hour funeral could be foregone as long as the central phrase were spoken over the unicorn's corpse or something); as it was, it didn't feel very strong to me.
It's probably a good idea to set a deadline for yourself of several hours before the actual deadline: that'll give you a chance to go grab a sandwich, run an errand, then come back and reread your entry to tighten it up and look for places where themes and ingredients need to be brought more to the forefront, explained better, reorganized, etc.
Anyway, that's what the writing tutor in me says
. Again, I think it was overall a quite strong entry, and the unicorn especially is a fantastic character. I hope you don't take my specific criticisms as a negation of my overall praise.Daniel
Dave Turner
First Post
We're agreed on "broken teeth".Pielorinho said:Dave,
Honestly, if you'd put "broken teeth" in as the name of the wolf, it wouldn't have been that much better
It's probably a good idea to set a deadline for yourself of several hours before the actual deadline: that'll give you a chance to go grab a sandwich, run an errand, then come back and reread your entry to tighten it up and look for places where themes and ingredients need to be brought more to the forefront, explained better, reorganized, etc.
Anyway, that's what the writing tutor in me says
Daniel
Your deadline advice is excellent and it was my intention to exactly as you suggest. But my unfamiliarity with creating an adventure under pressure led to my wasting a lot of time, as I alluded to earlier. I shall not make the same mistakes again in the next Iron DM tournament. /cue crashing thunder and ominous lightning.
Don't sweat your criticisms. They are invaluable and I'm quite capable of separating criticism from praise. Good, honest feedback is a rare treasure and always appreciated.
