Feinting in Combat

[Toj]

If you perform a feint in combat, does Uncanny dodge stop this, or are you S.O.L. against a rogue with a high bluff rank?

 

[hong]

If you perform a feint in combat, does Uncanny dodge stop this, or are you S.O.L. against a rogue with a high bluff rank?

You're screwed, even with Uncanny Dodge. I personally think this use of Bluff to feint in combat is a glitch in the rules. Feinting has nothing to do with bluffing in social situations (or very little, if you want to be generous). Similarly, detecting a feint has nothing/very little to do with detecting when someone's bluffing you. I would suggest letting a character substitute their BAB for their ranks in Bluff/Sense Motive when feinting or detecting a feint. Feinting and so forth should be an integral part of combat skill, not something tacked on to give a social skill some relevance in combat.

 

[Someguy]

If you Faint in combat, you shouldn't be IN combat.

 

[hong]

If you Faint in combat, you shouldn't be IN combat.

Ah, but if someone has no ranks in Sense Motive, they may not KNOW you've Fainted....

 

[Caliban]

Ah, but if someone has no ranks in Sense Motive, they may not KNOW you've Fainted....

Wouldn't the appropriate skill be "Sense Mobile" ?

 

[reapersaurus]

Re: Re: Feinting in Combat

I personally think this use of Bluff to feint in combat is a glitch in the rules. Feinting has nothing to do with bluffing in social situations (or very little, if you want to be generous).

holy crap.
I agree completely with hong - that came out of left field!

I think I'm going to Faint!

I've been saying for a year now how weird it is to me that they just tacked on that one paragraph in the description of the Bluff social skill and make it a combat-effective skill.

Why?!!
Why would they make a combat skill that a fighter has very little defense against?
As if fighters haven't ever had anyone fake a swing or lunge in battle before...

Once you enter combat, your acting ability goes out the window.
It's all a series of fighting maneuvers, and it's the FIGHTER who should be the most experienced and knowledgeable about it.

 

[zorlag]

zorlag

Yeah, it's bit odd. You could solve it by either making Sense Motive class skill for fighter-types or letting them use BAB as replacement for Sense Motive ranks when doing the opposed skill roll if you are bothered by occasional sneak attack. Without improved feint feinting in combat is not really that effective, since you attack only once per 2 rounds. Expert tactician lets you tack 2 attacks / 2 rounds, but only one is sneak attack.

Z.

 

[bensei]

Just to be sure about feinting itself:
Don't you sacrifice an attack for the faint?
Isn't thus fainting pretty useless unless fighting against verydexterous foes (or for rogues)?

 

[TrizzlWizzl]

Just to be sure about feinting itself:
Don't you sacrifice an attack for the faint?
Isn't thus fainting pretty useless unless fighting against verydexterous foes (or for rogues)?

Yes, feinting is a standard action. No, it's not useless at all. You get to make a sneak attack (assuming you're a rogue) against your Dex-less opponent after a successful feint... what's so useless about that?

I happen to think it's a pretty cool mechanic. It has nothing to do with 'acting', it's one's ability to 'psyche out' one's opponent to a point that they can't effectively use their Dexterity to defend themselves. Makes total sense to me. Anyone's who ever been in a fight with their younger brother, looked over his shoulder saying "oh my god, what is that?!" and attacked him when the gullible whelp turned to look knows it's a viable skill to use in combat. Anyone who's ever played football and used a quick head fake and sutter step to freeze up a defender knows feinting is a pretty useful skill. I mean, cripes... anyone who's ever been in a good ol' fistfight will tell you that Bluffing is a pretty important skill in combat.

So I basically disagree with everyone who's been talking about how silly and useless the mechanic is. I think it's appropriate; it adds a cool wrinkle to combat and gives players with high scores in abilities other than STR and DEX to have a meaningful impact on the course of battle.

 

[TrizzlWizzl]

Re: Re: Re: Feinting in Combat

Why?!!
Why would they make a combat skill that a fighter has very little defense against?
As if fighters haven't ever had anyone fake a swing or lunge in battle before...

I don't think there's anything keeping fighters from taking ranks in Sense Motive as a cross-class skill. I hear what you're saying about a fighter knowing about faked swings, but a feint isn't just a checked swing... it's witty reparte, application of guile, cunning, finesse... things not normally associated with fighters, whose specialization is the application of brute force.