D&D 5E Fighter Action Surge Change

[Xeviat]

Hi everyone. Yes, another Fighter thread. Again, I don't want to overtake the ongoing http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?571503-What-non-combat-abilities-should-fighters-have thread with an extended idea. There we have been talking about giving the fighter a little something more to do out of combat. The full (and even the half) spellcasters have the choice between utility and combat with their spells, but fighters lack a lot of those choices (except EKs to an extent). The only abilities they have on the base class that help out of combat are action surge (I suppose you could use it for a boost of speed in an exploration scene if you needed, or an extra attempt to smash a door), and indomitable (extra save to avoid a trap/hazard or to avoid getting charmed by the king's advisor). When I started thinking of the fighter abilities that way, something dawned on me.

Action Surge. What if Action Surge was expanded to allow it to do more? Now, I'm not really trying to boost the fighter's strength in combat, though maybe I'd like to smooth it out a little. But, I do want to increase their utility and give them extra options without making them too complicated.

So, what if, rather than Action surge giving a whole action that works with extra attack, what if the action it gave was more limited: 1 attack, dodge, dash, help ... basically everything that an action can do without extra attack. Okay, so where am I going? This is a big nerf. Along with this change, my idea grants extra uses of action surge. Over the course of a short rest, you'll get as many as, or more, weapon attacks with the new Action surge as you would before, but now you can trade those attacks for things like dash or dodge or help, in addition to combat maneuvers like push or grapple. This would allow a fighter to do more different things in combat. If the skill system is also enhanced to allow better and more skill actions, then these would also be available, giving the fighter things they could do in exploration scenes.

This ends up being a minor buff to the fighter at certain levels, when my action surge grants more extra attacks than core (from 8th to 16th level; it evens out at 17th), but it has a side effect of eliminating first round novas. That wasn't my intention, but it is something I like. More so, I like extra options. I can imagine an agile swordsperson using dash or disengage, while a defensive shield bearer may like the additional dodge attempts alongside attacking.

Thoughts? Here's the table:

[TABLE="width: 500"]
[TR]
[TD]Level[/TD]
[TD]Proficiency[/TD]
[TD]Features[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]Fighting Style, Second Wind[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]Action Surge (1)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]Martial Archetype
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]Ability Score Improvement[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]Extra Attack, Action Surge (2)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]Ability Score Improvement[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]Martial Archetype Feature[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]Ability Score Improvement, Action Surge (3)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]Indomitable (1)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]Martial Archetype Feature[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]Extra Attack (2), Action Surge (4)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]Ability Score Improvement[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]Indomitable (2)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]Ability Score Improvement, Action Surge (5)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]Martial Archetype Feature[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]16[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]Ability Score Improvement[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]Action Surge (6), Indomitable (3)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]Martial Archetype Feature[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]Ability Score Improvement[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]Extra Attack (3), Action Surge (8)[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Action Surge .
Starting at 2nd level, you can push yourself beyond your normal limits for a moment. On your turn, you can take one additional action on top of your regular action and possible bonus action. You may use this action to make one weapon attack, or to use the following actions: dash, disengage, dodge, help, hide, ready, search, use an object, or any other non-spellcasting action. You do not gain the benefit of Extra Attack with this action.
You begin with one use of this feature and gain additional uses as you gain levels, as shown on The Fighter table; 2 at 5th, 3 at 8th, 4 at 11th, 5 at 14th, 6 at 17th, and 8 at 20th. Once used, uses are expended until you finish a short or long rest.

Alternatively, I have been long considering moving Extra Attack (3) to 17th level to fit with the tier scaling. Extra Attack (3) is a cool ability, but it doesn't really WOW like a capstone. So, another idea would be to move Extra Attack (3) to 17th level (and just except that it's a big level for the Fighter) and change the level 20th capstone ability to be "Unlimited Action Surge". This would grant the fighter 1 extra action per round forever, though not stacking with Extra Attack. This is functionally similar to unlimited rage, and is cool without being a huge benefit (since having 6 action surges per short rest will cover most of the rounds). It will allow a 20th level Fighter to feel extraordinary, though. I really like this, actually.

 

[Satyrn]

I don't understand how this affects anything except combat.

Do you track action economy during exploration stuff? I don't. I don't think the game really expects it, either.

But this is a neat change that I think would make action surge more interesting for me. It's really the least used, least interesting feature of my gnome battlemaster. I've gotten more use out of the tool proficiency granted by Student of War than I have from Action Surge.

 

[Xeviat]

I don't understand how this affects anything except combat.

Do you track action economy during exploration stuff? I don't. I don't think the game really expects it, either.

But this is a neat change that I think would make action surge more interesting for me. It's really the least used, least interesting feature of my gnome battlemaster. I've gotten more use out of the tool proficiency granted by Student of War than I have from Action Surge.

There are times when I track actions in exploration, but I also run things a little more like skill challenges. "Can you get there in time?", "Opening the Portculus is super important" and interacting with complex traps all spring to mind.

But it is MOSTLY a combat change, but one that I think makes them feel more unique, even though they're just doing more of what everyone else can do with this.

 

[Satyrn]

Oh, I found my confusion! I was thinking of the other thread's non-combat focus when you said "Now, I'm not really trying to boost the fighter's strength in combat," and read that to mean you intended this as an exploration boost. Oops.

Anyway, as I said I think I like the change, that it should make action surge more interesting.

 

[Xeviat]

Oh, I found my confusion! I was thinking of the other thread's non-combat focus when you said "Now, I'm not really trying to boost the fighter's strength in combat," and read that to mean you intended this as an exploration boost. Oops.

Anyway, as I said I think I like the change, that it should make action surge more interesting.

I guess it's my own DM style influencing things here, as I use rounds in tense out of combat things as well. But I'm glad you liked it.

What were your thoughts on the "unlimited action surge" capstone? Does that feel better than Extra Attack (3)?

 

[Satyrn]

All those changes come at levels I won't ever play, so this is hypothetical.

Whether you move Extra Attack (3) to level 17 or not, I think you should indeed make this version of Action Surge unlimited as a capstone. 8 per rest is nearly there, anyway, so making it unlimited will have a small impact - but let me stop tracking it, which would be sweet.

 

[Xeviat]

By the way, here's how many attacks per short rest action surge currently gives:

Level 2: 1
Level 5: 2
Level 11: 3
Level 17: 6
Level 20: 8

So my boost does increase those between 8th and 16th levels, but not by much. I foresee many fighters using a dodge/dash/disengage/help in there.

 

[Satyrn]

So my boost does increase those between 8th and 16th levels, but not by much.

You can easily justify that by noting that it's a slight nerf to every turn that it's actually used, so the boost over time compensates for that.

 

[Jester David]

Intestesting. So more, smaller Action Surges. So less nova potential (but the same number of extra attacks in total) and more encouragement to use them for other tasks.
I think they'd still be saved for extra attacks rather than used to Aid or Dodge.

 

[Xeviat]

Intestesting. So more, smaller Action Surges. So less nova potential (but the same number of extra attacks in total) and more encouragement to use them for other tasks.
I think they'd still be saved for extra attacks rather than used to Aid or Dodge.

Typically. But trading one attack for something else is better than trading 2 or 3 at higher levels. Maybe it will happen more.


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