Fighter "Stunts": How will they work?

[Bishmon]

1. When they said Bo9S was a "significant preview" of 4e, they weren't kidding - the 4e maneuvers were specifically designed to playtest proposed 4e mechanics. At that point, the design team was toying with treating stunts as a hand of cards, complete with random-draw, discard and re-draw mechanics (as we saw in Bo9S). The three Bo9S classes were different experiments with that system.

2. HOWEVER, they decided that this game-within-a-game was too much, so they cut out most of those "hand"-management aspects for the 4e fighter.

3. The official justification for per-encounter "stunts" is that the enemy won't fall for the same stunt twice in the same encounter. The idea of fighters having an "inner reserve of energy" that gets exhausted is specifically denied. As the book states it (and I'm paraphrasing from memory), you get to use each of the stunts you know a maximum of once per encounter.

I like the sound of that. I disagree with the idea that an enemy can't fall for the same 'stunt' twice in one encounter, but it's probably as good of a justification for anything short of at-will powers as there is. It's certainly better than the "I've been exercising for five minutes, now I remember all my special maneuvers'.

Don't like the sound of 'stunts', though. Seems a bit silly, in my opinion. It evokes images of a guy running up a wall and flipping backwards off of it while delivering a strike. I'd rather they call them something like 'techniques' or even 'maneuvers' still. Sounds a bit more serious and master-of-combat-ish.

That's just a minor naggle, though, since I can easily just call 'em 'techniques' in my game. I like the rest of the stuff.

 

[Scribble]

Ooooh. I thought it was "I meditate one round and get all my powers back".


I don't want to derail the thread, but...


There were several ones that were used as swift actions. A jumping power that let him make a 30ft leap without having to roll, an 'he hit me, so I swift-action fireblast him', and two powers that he activated at once - an attack coupled with a fire attack (which did the 20 points of damage).

Yeah there are a few counters that are swift actions, and usually go off in response to something happening. (like being attacked.)

Again, however, though the powers seem "flashy" if you pay attention to the numbers you really aren't doing any more damage then the other characters.

 

[Gloombunny]

There were several ones that were used as swift actions. A jumping power that let him make a 30ft leap without having to roll

There is no such maneuver. Sudden Leap lets you make a jumping move as a swift action, but you have to roll a standard Jump check to see how far you can go, and you're not gonna be getting 30ft at level 3.

It's easy to seem overpowered when you cheat. ^_^ (Though, seriously speaking, he probably just misread the maneuver, and it's not like moving a few extra feet with the Jump is going to horribly overpower an otherwise balanced character. Scribble has the right of it.)

 

[Nikosandros]

Will there be ANY "refresh" mechanic, like taking a special action in Bo9S?

R&C explicitly states that "we eventually moved away from the idea of maneuvers refreshing in an encounter". There are also statements to the effect that maneuvers can be used once in an encounter.

 

[Kraydak]

R&C explicitly states that "we eventually moved away from the idea of maneuvers refreshing in an encounter". There are also statements to the effect that maneuvers can be used once in an encounter.

Oooooooh boy. All of the issues of encounter based durations and *even more*. WotC employs good people, but defining "encounters" that well... is probably impossible.

 

[jasin]

Well, I was going from personal experience, mind you. The Swordsage who was at our table for a session was just doing insane stuff, and then when I looked at the rules and it said "Oh and you can refresh by just taking a round to meditate", I agreed with the DM that that's just unnecessary.

Indeed. Since actions are quite possibly the most precious resource of D&D, most of the time, you're better off using your second-best attack rather than getting your best one back.

 

[EvolutionKB]

Races and Classes also said that every class when they level has an important choice to make(they are getting something cool). This could mean that every level, a fighter will get another stunt.

Edit: One thing that has me apprehensive is the pure number of stunts(and abilities for other classes). Can they really cram enough in the PHB to make members of the same classes different? 20-30 stunts would be a lot for a fighter to choose. How much overlap are we going to be seeing?

 

[Rechan]

Races and Classes also said that every class when they level has an important choice to make(they are getting something cool). This could mean that every level, a fighter will get another stunt.

I'm pretty sure that there you'll be getting A Feat, or a Stat Increase, or something, not necessarily new abilities.

 

[Nikosandros]

I'm pretty sure that there you'll be getting A Feat, or a Stat Increase, or something, not necessarily new abilities.

Yes, you'll be getting a least something new every level, but feats should be counted in this. I'm not so sure about stat increase... I don't think that there are levels in which that is the only thing you gain.

 

[Mostlyjoe]

Don't forget the Action Points mechanic. Use a stunt and force a refresh by spending a point the same way SWSE does.