D&D 5E Fighter Survey Response

Eubani

Legend
So what did people have to say about the UA archetypes and the fighter in general in the survey?

I basically said that the duopoly of the champion and Battlemaster combined with the flavourless mush that is weapons and armour (pretending to have meaningful choices) cramps out almost all design space with fighter design. I also said that the simple fighter and the advanced fighter should of been separate classes I mean if you consider how much space was given to casters both pure and partial + spells a few more pages for another martial class would not of hurt.

The Arcane Archer feels hed back by the Battlemaster. The limits on amount of usage on abilities still feels somewhat artificial and the mounted abilities on the Knight are in many games unused ribbon abilities.
 
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I thought Knight and Sniper (?) were okay. I'd like to see the Knight renamed to something like Guardian, but I can live with Knight.

Arcane Archer overlapped with Battlemaster too much, and several of the arrow powers were weird or stupid. I would rather see it as a Feat, as it was in the playtest (even though that one was bad).

Samurai was just bad, not even considering the fact that Samurai is a social position (yea, I'm that guy).
 


It's funny, I appreciate them putting out kits for all the classes and trying new things. Fighter should be one I care about most, because I enjoy them and they're a staple in pretty much every game, so interesting options are great.

I started to fill out the survey and realized I just don't care enough. I don't understand it. Maybe it's the amount of info, lately. Maybe it's the crazy amount of time I'm putting in at work. I usually make a point to answer the surveys, but I just can't.
 

I started to fill out the survey and realized I just don't care enough. I don't understand it. Maybe it's the amount of info, lately. Maybe it's the crazy amount of time I'm putting in at work. I usually make a point to answer the surveys, but I just can't.

The same with me (with the Druid in my case).

I think I'm just happy with all the subclasses in the PHB and I don't want new options for no good reason.
If they're making something new make it worthwhile, not a bunch of funny concepts just to fill another book.
 

In the name of fun, I begged them to compare the variety of options that fighters get with the ones casters get, in terms of giving fighters something more to do than "I hit it with my hammer). The limitations on daily arrows for the arcane archer was too much if that's what the character is based on. The summoning ammo ability would have not come in handy once in 20 years of gaming.

I said I found sharpshooter to not do justice to the "legendary archer" archetype enough and the knight to be a forced concept for the defender they created with those mechanics.

I related how intensely I dislike them borrowing from feats for class features, especially considering those types will probably end having to acquire the feat anyway.
 

I reiterated my stance that the Battlemaster is what the Fighter should be. The Maneuvers system and superiority dice should be the baseline for the Fighter class (and really, many of the other melee classes) the same way that Spellcasting and spell slots ares the baseline for all the magic classes. And to throw that system by the wayside is just stupid.

If you add these four archetypes to the four Fighter archetypes we already have (Champion, Battlemaster, Eldritch Knight, Banneret) and you ask someone "What's the underlying base mechanical assumption that gives all Fighter their iconic identity regardless of subclass?" what is our answer currently?

Action Surge and Second Wind.

That's it.

All Barbarians have Rage; all Bards have Spellcasting and Bardic Inspiration; all Clerics have Spellcasting and Channel Divinity; all Druids have Spellcasting and Wildshape; all Monks have Ki; all Paladins have Spellcasting, Smite, and Channel Divinity; all Rangers have a lot of junk; all Rogues have Sneak Attack; all Sorcerers have Spellcasting and Metamagic; all Warlocks have Invocations, Patrons and Pacts; all Wizards have Spellcasting, Spellbooks, and non-prepared Ritual casting).

For Fighters though, they get a second action in a round and some self-healing. That's all. Every other meaningful mechanical feature for the Fighter currently is completely different for each and every single Martial Archetype. There is nothing the Fighter as a class has which I think is a really cool thing it gets to hang its hat on. Every single cool thing comes out of each individual subclass, and these four new ones are no different. Which I think sucks. Because it give the Fighter as a class no real identity.

Now I'm sure some people are happy with that, because they thinks Fighters should have no individual identity. Personally though, I think that just makes the Fighter class almost superfluous.

So I made it quite clear in my survey that I much preferred the archetypes they had made previously for the Cavalier, Scout, and Monster Hunter that used the Maneuver and superiority die system of the Battlemaster as the mechanical baseline of all new Fighter archetypes. And in each case, they received a set selection of some already-in-existence Manuevers, but then also got additional new Maneuvers and features that they and only they got based upon the fluff and story of the archetype. And that what mechanical underpinnings they used for the Knight and Samurai especially could and should have easily been encapsulated within the superiority die system.

After all... the Knight and Samurai got some cool features. And what were the mechanics under them? "Use this feature 3 times and you get them back following a Long Rest". And thus I ask why you couldn't instead incorporate that feature as a Maneuver that is activated by a superiority die why? Because if you did... not only would the Knight and Samurai get those kinds of abilities, they'd also get to do all the cool extra damage and "special combat maneuvers" that all Battlemasters (should be 'all Fighters') get to do.

And then finally... I also said that doing an end-around on the DMs who don't want to use Feats by making subclasses that have ostensibly unique features but are actually just giving them Feats automatically is really kinda cheesy. Fighters already get extra slots as part of their class make-up to select additional ASIs/Feats, under the assumption that all these combat-related Feats are potential Fighter class abilities. So a Fighter can easily get the Sentinel or Sharpshooter feat if the DM allows for it, thereby getting those mechanics.

But if a DM has decided not to use Feats... it's because they don't want to deal with having those types of mechanics in their game. So to then re-introduce them to the game anyway by just handing them out to Fighter subclasses automatically does not put them in a very good light in my eyes. I feel it's like WotC just thumbing their eye at their DMs who choose to not use Feats.

So yeah... I wasn't overwhelmed by the Fighter UA. :)
 

The probable is I can basically make a Samurai or a knight now with feats and backgrounds. I do like the the Mark (I never played 4e so leave me out of that fight) and I noted they over relied on Rapid Strike using it three times. I did like Unbreakable Will as while.

I am a little torn I like some of the new stuff and like some of the direction on fighter but overall I am in the middle on the Fighter Subclass in the UA. I really did not pay attention to the arcane archer because I really am looking to build a non magical fighter and if they get Kensei fixed I will be able to make my multiclass fighter/Monk I really want to make with no magic sword. Make my Garret Jax or the swirly eyed Samurai Rurouni Kenshin yea yea I fall into two categories on this stuff
 

For me I think the Samurai is unnecessary. One player in my game made a Battlemaster as a samurai. The maneuvers seem to really give his character the flavor of Samurai in films to me.
Pretty often his Riposte skill turns into one of those moments where the two combatants strike at each other, pause... and the opponent slumps to the ground.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

If you add these four archetypes to the four Fighter archetypes we already have (Champion, Battlemaster, Eldritch Knight, Banneret) and you ask someone "What's the underlying base mechanical assumption that gives all Fighter their iconic identity regardless of subclass?" what is our answer currently?

Action Surge and Second Wind.

That's it.

All Barbarians have Rage; all Bards have Spellcasting and Bardic Inspiration; all Clerics have Spellcasting and Channel Divinity; all Druids have Spellcasting and Wildshape; all Monks have Ki; all Paladins have Spellcasting, Smite, and Channel Divinity; all Rangers have a lot of junk; all Rogues have Sneak Attack; all Sorcerers have Spellcasting and Metamagic; all Warlocks have Invocations, Patrons and Pacts; all Wizards have Spellcasting, Spellbooks, and non-prepared Ritual casting).

For Fighters though, they get a second action in a round and some self-healing. That's all. Every other meaningful mechanical feature for the Fighter currently is completely different for each and every single Martial Archetype. There is nothing the Fighter as a class has which I think is a really cool thing it gets to hang its hat on. Every single cool thing comes out of each individual subclass, and these four new ones are no different. Which I think sucks. Because it give the Fighter as a class no real identity.

I would also add that they get more attacks than anybody and that should be considered part of the identity of the Fighter. Getting a 3rd attack on the attack action at 11th, that nobody else can get, is a significant part of the Fighter.

I think that the reason that they don't get many truly unique abilities is simply that the class was designed as a somewhat blank slate allowing the player to customize it. The main identity of the Fighter is probably that flexibility and the extra ASIs (potentially feats) to use it.
 

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