Here's my version of the math. I've actually included the chances to hit and to crit against typical enemy AC. And I've given everybody the same flanking buddy that the Spring-Attacking rogue has. Feel free to correct me on specifics here.
I've used Remathilis' stats as a starting point. But, when I think of a Spring-Attacking fighter in 3.5, I envision one using a two-handed weapon for powerful attacks. NOT a swashbuckler. A different image of a lightly-armored fighter. Definitely a "striker" in 4E parlance. So let's give him a greatsword instead of a rapier and swap out Weapon Finesse for Improved Crit (giving that to the HA Ftr too). Because he's planning to avoid full attacks, he'll take the HA Ftr stats and swap the Con and Dex. And let's take a more typical CR 7 monster, the hill giant, with AC 20 (MM monster design guidelines suggest AC should be CR+13 or so).
10th level half-elf rogue. rapier, chain shirt, no magic. 13 str, 17 dex, 12 con. Dodge, Mobility, Spring Atk, Weapon Finesse.
AC: 17 (18 vs. 1 target). Hp: 47. To Hit: +12, 1d6+1 +5d6 SA (assuming spring atk into a flank)
Note that through level 8 (so over a majority of the lifetime of most campaigns) he's either not Spring-Attacking or not using Weapon Finesse.
10th level half-elf fighter. Greatsword, chain shirt. 16 str, 14 dex, 12 con. Dodge, Mobility, Spring Atk, Wpn Focus, Improved Crit, power atk, cleave, wpn spec, imp. wpn focus.
AC: 16 (17 vs. 1 target). Hp: 69 To hit: +17, 2d6+6. He can start Spring Attacking at level 4. Getting to do your cool stuff sooner in the campaign is a huge bonus. (An alternative build would swap out Cleave for Combat Reflexes and use a reach weapon.)
10th level half-elf fighter. Greatsword, fullplate. 16 str, 12 dex, 14 con. Power atk, cleave, grt cleave, wpn focus, wpn spec, imp wpn focus, imp crit, iron will
AC; 19. Hp: 79. To hit: +17/+12, 2d6+6
Against the Hill Giant, here's how the math works out:
Rog hits on an 8 or better (65% of the time). 85% of his hits are non-crits for 22, and 15% are crits for 26.5. Average damage per hit is 22.675, and average damage per round is 14.7.
SA Ftr hits on a 3 or better (90% of the time). 80% of his hits are non-crits for 13, and 20% are crits for 26. Average damage is 15.6 per hit. If he Power Attacks for 5 (so he has the same chance to hit as the rogue), he hits 65% of the time for an average 27.6 damage. Average damage per round is 17.94.
Even when the rogue can Sneak Attack, the fighter STILL does more damage.
HA Ftr hits on a 3 or better (90% of the time) with his primary and on an 8 or better (65% of the time) with his secondary. He also does 15.6 per hit (no PA) or 27.6 (PA for 5). Factoring in the chances to hit, he does better to use PA, and dishes out 28.98 per round.
Now, the HA fighter is taking full attacks from the hill giant, whereas the other two aren't. And the HA fighter might take an AOO in closing, where the other two don't. He does more damage, but he also takes more, and his AC isn't that much better.
Anyway, that's why I envision the lightly-armored mobile fighter as viable in 3.5. I imagine he'd be a lot of fun to play, and I've found mobility to be very important as a tactical option. Sometimes you want to end your turn close enough to another PC to benefit from a spell, or you want to make a fighting retreat back to a choke point, or draw the enemy into a particular spot, or draw out the fight for a while. SA lets you do this.
ruleslawyer said:
Or a fighter or barbarian with a reach weapon. But that is *not* a Dex-based fighter build, beyond requiring the minimum 13.
Light armor has been the issue here, not "Dex-based." Dex comes into it because if you are wearing light armor you want a higher Dex for AC (and it's useful for gaining more AOOs with Combat Reflexes, and retaining access to Spring Attack when Enlarged). Light armor is useful for the higher movement rate. In the 3.5 games I've played and run, a high base movement rate is essential.
