Parmandur
Book-Friend
It's true, D&D is doing well: but Magic is more of a license to print money than ever.
WotC Filing: Wizards of the Coast makes up roughly 70% of Hasbro's value
- Thread starter Henadic Theologian
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Henadic Theologian
Hero
I think the romantic ideal of a GI is Ukraine now, not American at all. A Ukrainian GI Joe would sell like Hot cakes, I hate to say it, but it would, folks like a arse kicking underdog.
doctorbadwolf
Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Sure. I just don't think that the state of DnD comes across at all when folks insist on talking about it's success as secondary to MtG, which we don't actually even know is still the case, and is almost certainly vastly less the case than it was a decade ago.
Henadic Theologian
Hero
I think increasingly they both are, MtG is still bigger profit wise (they call it the Magic the Crackening for a reason), but the lines between the two IPs are blurring, the popular of D&D IPs are as popular or more then their MtG counterparts, it's the collectable, competitive nature of MtG that makes it more popular, because AFR was the best selling MtG Summer set and that was with huge complaints that it was under powered.
That reminds it's been brought to my attention by someone that the Warhammer Commander Decks might be be a test to see if WotC can sell Warhammer products ahead of a possible purchase of Games Workshop itself by WotC.
It's a smart move and while very expensive purchase, it brings a ton of value to WotC and Games Workshop. WotC can do Warhammer: Sigmar/40k/classic D&D 5e setting books, more MtG Warhammer decks, secret lairs, or sets, a Birthright, Ravnica, Theros, or Forgotten Realms war game using Games Workshop skills, expand the Games Workshop's Black Library to include D&D & MtG novels lines, more D&D minis, MtG staff can help build a better secondary market for Warhammer minis, increase collectablity, and so much more.
Parmandur
Book-Friend
D&D is definitely carrying It's own weight now: but still.
doctorbadwolf
Heretic of The Seventh Circle
But still nothing, D&D carrying it's own weight is huge. Like, a much bigger deal than "MtG is in a popularity spike right now".
But more on topic, it's also not accurate to act like wotc is such a big deal right now mostly because of MtG. Like, even if MtG is still bigger, the margin is not that big anymore.
Like...MtG isn't the IP getting several tv shows and a movie right now. DnD is reaching the point where very little further growth is needed for it to not be a niche interest anymore. The fact that MtG is also big just isn't as relelvant to discussions about DND's success as it was a decade ago.
Parmandur
Book-Friend
I mean, MtG is getting a bunch of media, as well, we just dontslk about thst here. It's more than just a spike, Arena has caused geometric growth in Magic revenue. The crazy thing is thst the ratio might be the same, even if D&D is bigger than ever and mainstream now.
I'm not putting down D&D, just pointing out that WotC is feasting. Which ia what the brokers want to take advantage of.
Henadic Theologian
Hero
To think just a couple of years ago folks were speculating about Games Workshop buying Wizards of the Coast, now flesh are wondering if Wizards will buy Games Workshop (which just cost and having fiscal resources to do it, makes way more sense anyways).
It's important to distinguish between popularity and profitability, too. D&D has always struggled with finding a sustainable business model; the game by its nature doesn't require a lot of ongoing investment by players. Meanwhile, Magic is brilliantly engineered to suck money out of wallets (he said, refreshing to see if there were any more New Capenna spoilers up). So at the same level of popularity, M:tG will be far more profitable.
By this point, I would not be at all surprised to learn that D&D had become significantly more popular than Magic, even though Magic likely continues to bring in more money. Hence all the spinoffs and licensing--Wizards is looking for ways to tap the power of that market.
Henadic Theologian
Hero
So far BG3 and Forgotten Realms/D&D sets in MtG are doing well, by July it will be 3 sets & a secret lair (AFR, CLB, AH: BG, and the D&D cartoon secret lair).
MGibster
Legend
Are we talking about the same children who think a show featuring a ten year old boy who wanders around the country without parental supervision, captures exotic animals, and trains them to merciless combat one another in an arena before thousands of spectators isn't too ridiculous a premise?
GI Joe followed the marketing strategy that worked well for Barbie. You sell the basic doll and then make a killing on the accessories including weapons, vehicles, and new outfits. Did I say doll? Sorry, GI Joe is an action figure. Boys don't play with dolls. Seriously, Hasbro directed their employees to never refer to GI Joe as a doll.
I think its Americanness (wow, spellchecker says that's a word) is a big problem so far as the international market is concerned. For the first GI Joe movie, they tried marketing it in Europe as an international team. I don't know how that works with a team called GI Joe.
But keep in mind that GI Joe was revived in the early 1980s during a time when the US Army had quite a serious morale problem. The cartoon was released in 1985, and that same year the nation got to see the body of Steelworker 2nd Class Robert Stethem of the United States Navy lying on the tarmac of the airport in Beirut after Hezbollah terrorist tortured and murdered him. Even back in the 80s, people knew terrorism was ugly.
I think GI is inexorably tied to American soldiers and nobody thinks of Ukrainians that way. That'd be like thinking of a US soldier as a Tommy.
LuisCarlos17f
Legend
Today toy soldiers aren't wellcome by parents who buy for their children, but if these are linked with sci-fi franchises (Star Wars, Fortnite, Halo..) because they are more ideologically neutral. Even toys about WWII may become politically correct now. Parents would rather to buy toys about fantasy, or police vs criminals.
G.I.Joe is too linked to American army to be sold in the international market. And today even the most patriot citizens untrust their goverment. And parodies could be used to promote the opposite point of view. And to use real countries as antagonists is dangerous. Do remember today we can't talk about the Japanese empire for the second world war. The villains have to be 100% fictional. And Cobra as terrorist group is relatively harmless with all those vehicles, weapons and troops when real terrorists can cause more suffering with less amount of money.
There is other option, G.I.Joe in crossovers with other franchises, not only decepticons (evil transformers) but other titles as inhumanoids. This could be perfect if Hasbro wants its own version of Resident Evil + Doom Eternal monsters. Or a new crossover G.I.Joe x Street Fighters again.
Does anybody remember action man and dr X? and M.A.S.K?
* I wouldn't too suprised if Hasbro acquired Games Workshop, but we know Warhammer 40.000 could be too grimmdark for the preteen market. My worst fear is that type of speculative fiction forgets a very important lesson: if we want a better tomorrow we have to defend the respect for the human dignity. If it happens, we could bet for a reboot of W40K.
* Of course Pokemon franchise shouldn't abuse the suspension of disbelief about children allowed to enter alone into wild zones where they could suffer attacks by predators and to catch and control creatures whose powers could cause a forest fire.
* D&D is popular now among different reasons because players can do a lot of interactive actions in a videogame aren't possible, and they can create their own stories with total freedom.
G.I.Joe is too linked to American army to be sold in the international market. And today even the most patriot citizens untrust their goverment. And parodies could be used to promote the opposite point of view. And to use real countries as antagonists is dangerous. Do remember today we can't talk about the Japanese empire for the second world war. The villains have to be 100% fictional. And Cobra as terrorist group is relatively harmless with all those vehicles, weapons and troops when real terrorists can cause more suffering with less amount of money.
There is other option, G.I.Joe in crossovers with other franchises, not only decepticons (evil transformers) but other titles as inhumanoids. This could be perfect if Hasbro wants its own version of Resident Evil + Doom Eternal monsters. Or a new crossover G.I.Joe x Street Fighters again.
Does anybody remember action man and dr X? and M.A.S.K?
* I wouldn't too suprised if Hasbro acquired Games Workshop, but we know Warhammer 40.000 could be too grimmdark for the preteen market. My worst fear is that type of speculative fiction forgets a very important lesson: if we want a better tomorrow we have to defend the respect for the human dignity. If it happens, we could bet for a reboot of W40K.
* Of course Pokemon franchise shouldn't abuse the suspension of disbelief about children allowed to enter alone into wild zones where they could suffer attacks by predators and to catch and control creatures whose powers could cause a forest fire.
* D&D is popular now among different reasons because players can do a lot of interactive actions in a videogame aren't possible, and they can create their own stories with total freedom.
Zardnaar
Legend
This was the chase rare on release from that set. I saw an early Psychatog deck and said that card was better online and got laughed at.
Paul Farquhar
Legend
She-Ra is good, but it is aimed at a modern young audience, not fans of the original.
Which seems like the sensible thing to do with a D&D cartoon as well.
MGibster
Legend
That approach is working out for the D&D game line, so I would have to agree.
Henadic Theologian
Hero
But it's not working out for the He-man, She-ra franchise at all, which is a disaster right now.
The She-Ra TV series was by all accounts a massive success. I don't know how it's working out for the toys, but the series was amazing.
Not that it's relevant for Hasbro, since the toy rights for He-Man and She-Ra likely resides with Mattel.
Henadic Theologian
Hero
It was more then He-man side that went wrong.
Paul Farquhar
Legend
The Kevin Smith version was good. It was just too adult for the kids, and too modern for the more conservative grognards. Which is why it would be a mistake for WotC to target an adult audience with it's D&D cartoon.
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