WotC Filing: Wizards of the Coast makes up roughly 70% of Hasbro's value

Parmandur

Book-Friend
I think this undersells it pretty dramatically. We're all used to MtG being the golden goose and DnD being funded by it, but I think if you look at the growth, the amazon rankings for the PHB still, etc, the picture is pretty clear that DnD is doing well enough that it could keep another property afloat, if need be.
It's true, D&D is doing well: but Magic is more of a license to print money than ever.
 

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It was still at a time when military service of some sort was a widely held social expectation and GIs a more romantic ideal - they were the heroes of WWII, after all. My father and almost all of my uncles served in some capacity (from active to reserves) in the 1950s and into the early 1960s. Plus, they were right on the heels of Kennedy and his "ask not what your country can do for you..." that inspired a lot of young men to volunteer and get sent to Vietnam. That whole milieu was largely blown away by the disillusionment of Vietnam but you can see it in the experiences of the late Silent Generation cohort.

I think the romantic ideal of a GI is Ukraine now, not American at all. A Ukrainian GI Joe would sell like Hot cakes, I hate to say it, but it would, folks like a arse kicking underdog.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
It's true, D&D is doing well: but Magic is more of a license to print money than ever.
Sure. I just don't think that the state of DnD comes across at all when folks insist on talking about it's success as secondary to MtG, which we don't actually even know is still the case, and is almost certainly vastly less the case than it was a decade ago.
 

It's true, D&D is doing well: but Magic is more of a license to print money than ever.

I think increasingly they both are, MtG is still bigger profit wise (they call it the Magic the Crackening for a reason), but the lines between the two IPs are blurring, the popular of D&D IPs are as popular or more then their MtG counterparts, it's the collectable, competitive nature of MtG that makes it more popular, because AFR was the best selling MtG Summer set and that was with huge complaints that it was under powered.

That reminds it's been brought to my attention by someone that the Warhammer Commander Decks might be be a test to see if WotC can sell Warhammer products ahead of a possible purchase of Games Workshop itself by WotC.

It's a smart move and while very expensive purchase, it brings a ton of value to WotC and Games Workshop. WotC can do Warhammer: Sigmar/40k/classic D&D 5e setting books, more MtG Warhammer decks, secret lairs, or sets, a Birthright, Ravnica, Theros, or Forgotten Realms war game using Games Workshop skills, expand the Games Workshop's Black Library to include D&D & MtG novels lines, more D&D minis, MtG staff can help build a better secondary market for Warhammer minis, increase collectablity, and so much more.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
Sure. I just don't think that the state of DnD comes across at all when folks insist on talking about it's success as secondary to MtG, which we don't actually even know is still the case, and is almost certainly vastly less the case than it was a decade ago.
D&D is definitely carrying It's own weight now: but still.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
D&D is definitely carrying It's own weight now: but still.
But still nothing, D&D carrying it's own weight is huge. Like, a much bigger deal than "MtG is in a popularity spike right now".

But more on topic, it's also not accurate to act like wotc is such a big deal right now mostly because of MtG. Like, even if MtG is still bigger, the margin is not that big anymore.

Like...MtG isn't the IP getting several tv shows and a movie right now. DnD is reaching the point where very little further growth is needed for it to not be a niche interest anymore. The fact that MtG is also big just isn't as relelvant to discussions about DND's success as it was a decade ago.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
But still nothing, D&D carrying it's own weight is huge. Like, a much bigger deal than "MtG is in a popularity spike right now".

But more on topic, it's also not accurate to act like wotc is such a big deal right now mostly because of MtG. Like, even if MtG is still bigger, the margin is not that big anymore.

Like...MtG isn't the IP getting several tv shows and a movie right now. DnD is reaching the point where very little further growth is needed for it to not be a niche interest anymore. The fact that MtG is also big just isn't as relelvant to discussions about DND's success as it was a decade ago.
I mean, MtG is getting a bunch of media, as well, we just dontslk about thst here. It's more than just a spike, Arena has caused geometric growth in Magic revenue. The crazy thing is thst the ratio might be the same, even if D&D is bigger than ever and mainstream now.

I'm not putting down D&D, just pointing out that WotC is feasting. Which ia what the brokers want to take advantage of.
 


To think just a couple of years ago folks were speculating about Games Workshop buying Wizards of the Coast, now flesh are wondering if Wizards will buy Games Workshop (which just cost and having fiscal resources to do it, makes way more sense anyways).
 

Dausuul

Legend
But still nothing, D&D carrying it's own weight is huge. Like, a much bigger deal than "MtG is in a popularity spike right now".

But more on topic, it's also not accurate to act like wotc is such a big deal right now mostly because of MtG. Like, even if MtG is still bigger, the margin is not that big anymore.

Like...MtG isn't the IP getting several tv shows and a movie right now. DnD is reaching the point where very little further growth is needed for it to not be a niche interest anymore. The fact that MtG is also big just isn't as relelvant to discussions about DND's success as it was a decade ago.
It's important to distinguish between popularity and profitability, too. D&D has always struggled with finding a sustainable business model; the game by its nature doesn't require a lot of ongoing investment by players. Meanwhile, Magic is brilliantly engineered to suck money out of wallets (he said, refreshing to see if there were any more New Capenna spoilers up). So at the same level of popularity, M:tG will be far more profitable.

By this point, I would not be at all surprised to learn that D&D had become significantly more popular than Magic, even though Magic likely continues to bring in more money. Hence all the spinoffs and licensing--Wizards is looking for ways to tap the power of that market.
 

It's important to distinguish between popularity and profitability, too. D&D has always struggled with finding a sustainable business model; the game by its nature doesn't require a lot of ongoing investment by players. Meanwhile, Magic is brilliantly engineered to suck money out of wallets (he said, refreshing to see if there were any more New Capenna spoilers up). So at the same level of popularity, M:tG will be far more profitable.

By this point, I would not be at all surprised to learn that D&D had become significantly more popular than Magic, even though Magic likely continues to bring in more money. Hence all the spinoffs and licensing--Wizards is looking for ways to tap the power of that market.

So far BG3 and Forgotten Realms/D&D sets in MtG are doing well, by July it will be 3 sets & a secret lair (AFR, CLB, AH: BG, and the D&D cartoon secret lair).
 

MGibster

Legend
The G.I.Joe franchise in 2022 can't be like in 1989. Today +7 children have got a different point of view because the experencie with shooter videogames teachs us the "one-man-army" is not possible in the real life. If you play a strategy videogame you know what happens when you have spent your supplies, and Cobra is always losing a lot of money and troops. How to say it softly? Children can realise Cobra is too ridiculous compared with Bin Laden and other people from real life. And today the wat toys has got a bad reputation in lots of homes, not only against G.I.Joe
Are we talking about the same children who think a show featuring a ten year old boy who wanders around the country without parental supervision, captures exotic animals, and trains them to merciless combat one another in an arena before thousands of spectators isn't too ridiculous a premise?
They did introduce Joes of Color and whatnot at some point. Honestly, back in those days I think they were more marketed as kind of cool detailed toys that had lots of equipment and whatnot, and kind of appealed more to a fascination with guns and 'army stuff' vs really testosterone-soaked action.
GI Joe followed the marketing strategy that worked well for Barbie. You sell the basic doll and then make a killing on the accessories including weapons, vehicles, and new outfits. Did I say doll? Sorry, GI Joe is an action figure. Boys don't play with dolls. Seriously, Hasbro directed their employees to never refer to GI Joe as a doll.

IMO one problem with any reboot of GI Joe in this day and age is that it has to compete with Marvel - the GI Joe action figure/comic book/cartoon line is a very Marvel comics product. And so how do you do it in such a way that it doesn't look like a Marvel "rip-off"? (Also it's American-centeredness makes a problem as well - we're in an International market nowadays for pop culture items. But trying to turn something so originally tied up with the US military into an international product leads to its own issues).
I think its Americanness (wow, spellchecker says that's a word) is a big problem so far as the international market is concerned. For the first GI Joe movie, they tried marketing it in Europe as an international team. I don't know how that works with a team called GI Joe.
By 1980 things had changed A LOT, Vietnam took the shine off the whole 'military industrial complex' and the idea of fighting wars being anything but nasty and ugly. Plus the military went all-volunteer. Today, outside of areas around bases, you just don't find the military is really a part of things to the same degree.
But keep in mind that GI Joe was revived in the early 1980s during a time when the US Army had quite a serious morale problem. The cartoon was released in 1985, and that same year the nation got to see the body of Steelworker 2nd Class Robert Stethem of the United States Navy lying on the tarmac of the airport in Beirut after Hezbollah terrorist tortured and murdered him. Even back in the 80s, people knew terrorism was ugly.

I think the romantic ideal of a GI is Ukraine now, not American at all. A Ukrainian GI Joe would sell like Hot cakes, I hate to say it, but it would, folks like a arse kicking underdog.

I think GI is inexorably tied to American soldiers and nobody thinks of Ukrainians that way. That'd be like thinking of a US soldier as a Tommy.
 

Today toy soldiers aren't wellcome by parents who buy for their children, but if these are linked with sci-fi franchises (Star Wars, Fortnite, Halo..) because they are more ideologically neutral. Even toys about WWII may become politically correct now. Parents would rather to buy toys about fantasy, or police vs criminals.

G.I.Joe is too linked to American army to be sold in the international market. And today even the most patriot citizens untrust their goverment. And parodies could be used to promote the opposite point of view. And to use real countries as antagonists is dangerous. Do remember today we can't talk about the Japanese empire for the second world war. The villains have to be 100% fictional. And Cobra as terrorist group is relatively harmless with all those vehicles, weapons and troops when real terrorists can cause more suffering with less amount of money.

There is other option, G.I.Joe in crossovers with other franchises, not only decepticons (evil transformers) but other titles as inhumanoids. This could be perfect if Hasbro wants its own version of Resident Evil + Doom Eternal monsters. Or a new crossover G.I.Joe x Street Fighters again.

Does anybody remember action man and dr X? and M.A.S.K?

* I wouldn't too suprised if Hasbro acquired Games Workshop, but we know Warhammer 40.000 could be too grimmdark for the preteen market. My worst fear is that type of speculative fiction forgets a very important lesson: if we want a better tomorrow we have to defend the respect for the human dignity. If it happens, we could bet for a reboot of W40K.

* Of course Pokemon franchise shouldn't abuse the suspension of disbelief about children allowed to enter alone into wild zones where they could suffer attacks by predators and to catch and control creatures whose powers could cause a forest fire.

* D&D is popular now among different reasons because players can do a lot of interactive actions in a videogame aren't possible, and they can create their own stories with total freedom.
 



see

Pedantic Grognard
Yeah, these investors need to really learn the lesson "This too shall pass".

Hasbro, it appears, does understand that, instead of assuming that a given property's boom will last forever and a current bust means a property is worthless.
 






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