WotC Filing: Wizards of the Coast makes up roughly 70% of Hasbro's value

[LuisCarlos17f]

Today GW's franchises could suffer some troubles and misunderstanding, and being victims of "cancel culture". Hasbro isn't interested into to sell wargame miniatures, or at least, there is more interest into videogames. And we are in the age of the 3D-printers, it is not now the best time to sell expensive miniatures. WotC doesn't need nor Warhammer Fantasy neither Age of Sigmar, and W40K is more difficult to sell than G.I.Joe.

I have seen a teaser of the cominsoon action-live version of "Monster High", a Mattel franchise being produced by Paramount. This means the partnership between Hasbro and Paramount if it is renewed then with different condictions, no exclusive, but more a "open relation". And this could allow partnership deals with other companies, for example Warner (with a purge among the CEOs after the merger with Discovery) and Disney(this losing of lot of popularity in the last weeks).

Hasbro doesn't need GW when there are other companies with their own IPs, and maybe these may be a cheaper option.

* Hasbro could publish a new "Star Crusade", but based in other setting, for example with races from d20 Future, with other name (trademark owned by others) and with an app to be the IA for games with solo players.

Zombicide by CMON has been sold very well. Avalon Hill could try something like that, but based in Gamma World, not only zombies but different type of monsters.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

Today GW's franchises could suffer some troubles and misunderstanding, and being victims of "cancel culture". Hasbro isn't interested into to sell wargame miniatures, or at least, there is more interest into videogames. And we are in the age of the 3D-printers, it is not now the best time to sell expensive miniatures. WotC doesn't need nor Warhammer Fantasy neither Age of Sigmar, and W40K is more difficult to sell than G.I.Joe.

I have seen a teaser of the cominsoon action-live version of "Monster High", a Mattel franchise being produced by Paramount. This means the partnership between Hasbro and Paramount if it is renewed then with different condictions, no exclusive, but more a "open relation". And this could allow partnership deals with other companies, for example Warner (with a purge among the CEOs after the merger with Discovery) and Disney(this losing of lot of popularity in the last weeks).

Hasbro doesn't need GW when there are other companies with their own IPs, and maybe these may be a cheaper option.

* Hasbro could publish a new "Star Crusade", but based in other setting, for example with races from d20 Future, with other name (trademark owned by others) and with an app to be the IA for games with solo players.

Zombicide by CMON has been sold very well. Avalon Hill could try something like that, but based in Gamma World, not only zombies but different type of monsters.

WotC is releasing 4 Warhammer 40k Commander Decks this year, yet the amount of GI Joe and Monster High decks or sets or secret Lairs release? Zero.

As for the possiblity Warhammer could be cancelled, I find it alot less likely this year, then in the past few years as the twitterverse has huge challenge to its power in the form of Elon Musk and a general backlash against cancel culture. I mean CK Louise just won a Grammy for best comedy album.

And Disney is in no position to be making major deals, they are drowning in debt and getting hit by backlashes and its Shanghi Theme Park is locked down. Disney will be lucky if it doesn't go bankrupt in the next few years.

Warner Media Empire is in the middle of a blood bath in terms firings and will likely be radically changed by its new boss, so major partnerships with Hasbro are unlikely at the moment.

 

[bedir than]

You both know that Hasbro is working with both Disney and Warner already, right? Also Netflix.

Why keep repeating provably untrue items to fuel your conspiracies?

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

The TTRPGs would be very boring without conspirancies. The best years for Netflix ended when other streaming services arrived.

I sorry for Disney, I love their franchises, but not only theme parks were closed during the epidemic but also other reasons. I have read if Steve Jobs was live Apple and Disney had mergered. I don't like that idea because I use a PC, not a Mac.

 

[see]

Look at the P/E ratio of basically all stocks that are even close to investment grade today. They are all MANY MANY multiples of anything that would allow someone to come out ahead by buying equities for the dividends.

Well, yes, because stock appreciation is tax-advantaged over dividends, because "long-term" capital gains rates are lower than income tax rates. So a sensible modern stockholder who wants the cash a company has earned presses the company to do a stock buyback. The result of this legerdemain is still cash being paid out by the company to stockholders, but with lower taxes paid by the stockholders.

 

[Steampunkette]

WotC is releasing 4 Warhammer 40k Commander Decks this year, yet the amount of GI Joe and Monster High decks or sets or secret Lairs release? Zero.

As for the possiblity Warhammer could be cancelled, I find it alot less likely this year, then in the past few years as the twitterverse has huge challenge to its power in the form of Elon Musk and a general backlash against cancel culture. I mean CK Louise just won a Grammy for best comedy album.

And Disney is in no position to be making major deals, they are drowning in debt and getting hit by backlashes and its Shanghi Theme Park is locked down. Disney will be lucky if it doesn't go bankrupt in the next few years.

Warner Media Empire is in the middle of a blood bath in terms firings and will likely be radically changed by its new boss, so major partnerships with Hasbro are unlikely at the moment.

1) I'm curious how much overlap you see between Magic: The Gathering and GI Joe or Monster High. Like are those really potent untapped demographics for a card game that would sell millions of copies?

2) Backlash against Cancel Culture. Hmm. 'Kay. That's certainly a take. "Cancel Culture" is a boogeyman invented by people facing social consequences for their misdeeds in a solid DARVO maneuver. Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender. "It's not important that I exposed myself to women over the years without consent or warning, what matters is this angry response to my innocent mistake!"

3) Disney's Debt. They hover between 40% and 60% Debt to Equity ratio and always have, because they constantly cycle debts. They're not "Drowning" in debt. They're maintaining it because they can make their bottom line look fatter through loans to offset costs. Walt Disney Debt to Equity Ratio

4) Warner Media Empire. Yup. Lots of firings. Pretty standard practice, really, when a big change is made in the company. And, honestly, with the continual fairly crappiness of their understanding of how to formulate a decent superhero movie (Though "The Batman" is, honestly, shockingly good in that department) we'll probably see another major realignment before things settle down... But. Hasbro is the biggest toy manufacturer around and they've done everything from DC Superheroes Action Figures to Harry Potter Clue. It's a little out there to declare they'll disconnect from their largest option just because they're restructuring internally (Again).

In short: WotC is Fine. Hasbro is Fine. Disney is Fine. Warner Brothers can't do what Marvel did. Cancel Culture is a boogeyman. Stop it.

 

[bedir than]

1) I'm curious how much overlap you see between Magic: The Gathering and GI Joe or Monster High. Like are those really potent untapped demographics for a card game that would sell millions of copies?

2) Backlash against Cancel Culture. Hmm. 'Kay. That's certainly a take. "Cancel Culture" is a boogeyman invented by people facing social consequences for their misdeeds in a solid DARVO maneuver. Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender. "It's not important that I exposed myself to women over the years without consent or warning, what matters is this angry response to my innocent mistake!"

3) Disney's Debt. They hover between 40% and 60% Debt to Equity ratio and always have, because they constantly cycle debts. They're not "Drowning" in debt. They're maintaining it because they can make their bottom line look fatter through loans to offset costs. Walt Disney Debt to Equity Ratio

4) Warner Media Empire. Yup. Lots of firings. Pretty standard practice, really, when a big change is made in the company. And, honestly, with the continual fairly crappiness of their understanding of how to formulate a decent superhero movie (Though "The Batman" is, honestly, shockingly good in that department) we'll probably see another major realignment before things settle down... But. Hasbro is the biggest toy manufacturer around and they've done everything from DC Superheroes Action Figures to Harry Potter Clue. It's a little out there to declare they'll disconnect from their largest option just because they're restructuring internally (Again).

In short: WotC is Fine. Hasbro is Fine. Disney is Fine. Warner Brothers can't do what Marvel did. Cancel Culture is a boogeyman. Stop it.

The Warner layoffs have nothing to do with the DCU, and everything to do with the Discovery merger. It's normal merger stuff, not related to genre film at all.

 

[Steampunkette]

The Warner layoffs have nothing to do with the DCU, and everything to do with the Discovery merger. It's normal merger stuff, not related to genre film at all.

Oh, I know. I'm just saying we'll probably see another "Realignment" in the future because of the studio's issues in fulfilling the Superhero Cinematic Universe goals.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

Changues in the chairs of the CEOs from a megacorporation can be normal after a merger, but I guess this time Discovery wants a different market strategy.

Disney franchises and IPs are very loved and popular but the company is losing prestige, and that can cause a lot of economic damage.

Cancel Culture may be sometimes totally unpredictable. Some times it starts after a titles to become enough famous.

DC animated movie and showed worked very well, and the action-live series. They have got team and money, if movies don't work they should wonder where are the mistakes.

Where were the mistakes of the second Michael Bay's second TNMT movie?

 

[MGibster]

WotC buying GW would be terrible. This industry needs more big, sustainable companies, not fewer.

I have mixed feelings about the prospect. On one hand, yeah, you make a valid point. But on the gripping hand, I'd sure like like to see GW change how they market their games. Hell, I'd love for them to actually care about making decent games instead of just churning out nice models.

 

[Steampunkette]

Disney franchises and IPs are very loved and popular but the company is losing prestige, and that can cause a lot of economic damage.

How do you figure?

Cancel Culture may be sometimes totally unpredictable. Some times it starts after a titles to become enough famous.

Cancel Culture doesn't exist. It's just a backlash against impropriety. It's a nonissue being inflated in order to manipulate people into forgiving bad actors, nothing more.

DC animated movie and showed worked very well, and the action-live series. They have got team and money, if movies don't work they should wonder where are the mistakes.

Animated movies and shows? DEFINITELY. Because pretty much all of them take the characters for who and what they are. Every time they try to do a live action movie they try to do a big "Prestige" thing and make it "More Real" and it never works. Why? Because the characters are meant to be larger than life.

Except Wonder Woman and Aquaman. Both of those films -embraced- their characters and the over the top natures of their fights. At least right up 'til Wonder Woman's CGI Fight against the God of War who just used Telekinesis repeatedly rather than, y'know... actually fighting.

And then the Live Action shows only worked in the sense that it was a CW show with supernatural elements. They just took a tried and true formula, slapped tights on it instead of vampires, and let it run.

Where were the mistakes of the second Michael Bay's second TNMT movie?

Well, I mean... he -made- a second TMNT movie so that was his first mistake...

 

[jasper]

What was this 'broader cachet'? I grew up in the '60s, and even had some G.I. Joe stuff (we made our own parachutes for ours and hurled them off of high buildings and such, lit them on fire, etc.). I remember we also had a plastic Jeep they could ride in (not one that was canonical Joe equipment, but it worked). I don't recall any context outside of being male, American, and at least in the 60's white, soldier dudes. They did introduce Joes of Color and whatnot at some point. Honestly, back in those days I think they were more marketed as kind of cool detailed toys that had lots of equipment and whatnot, and kind of appealed more to a fascination with guns and 'army stuff' vs really testosterone-soaked action. Still, I'd call them a pretty niche appeal toy and I personally don't know what the broader cachet would be. Hasbro probably could have tried to introduce 'Joes' in other roles like firefighter, doctor/EMT, police, etc. (it would be hard to imagine less 'action oriented ones' TBH). I don't recall that ever happening. Of course I am no expert on 80's Joe stuff, I was rather aged out of that kind of stuff by then... lol.

So handchiefs, or your mom's good umbrella for the chutes?

 

[Scribe]

I have mixed feelings about the prospect. On one hand, yeah, you make a valid point. But on the gripping hand, I'd sure like like to see GW change how they market their games. Hell, I'd love for them to actually care about making decent games instead of just churning out nice models.

The best things GW has.

1. The Models.
2. The IP.

Then being purchased by WoTC wouldnt put the Models at risk, and likely wouldnt improve the rules.

It would absolutely put the IP at risk.

Its a no win for people who actually like 40K as a setting.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Well, yes, because stock appreciation is tax-advantaged over dividends, because "long-term" capital gains rates are lower than income tax rates. So a sensible modern stockholder who wants the cash a company has earned presses the company to do a stock buyback. The result of this legerdemain is still cash being paid out by the company to stockholders, but with lower taxes paid by the stockholders.

Yes, that's partly true, certainly you would most likely rather your gains be classified as capital gain vs ordinary income. Still, even if you factor in buybacks and whatnot public equity hasn't been performing so well. Its hard to really disentangle the factors though when it is all lumped together (IE inflation, profits, speculation). Just look at the alternative energy industry though, as an example, and you can see that the really good investments are all private nowadays. The companies that will be worth 20x or 100x in 5-10 years, you can pick them out, but you cannot buy in unless you're in a pretty exclusive club.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

So handchiefs, or your mom's good umbrella for the chutes?

I seem to recall we cut ours out of some old cotton cloth or something, so they were big enough to actually work.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

The best things GW has.

1. The Models.
2. The IP.

Then being purchased by WoTC wouldnt put the Models at risk, and likely wouldnt improve the rules.

It would absolutely put the IP at risk.

Its a no win for people who actually like 40K as a setting.

Yeah, I think the color and tone of WH is WAY different from D&D, don't mix them.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Yeah, I think the color and tone of WH is WAY different from D&D, don't mix them.

Even if wotc bought them (and I see no reason whatsoever to think they want to), they’d probably not mix them. They probably wouldn’t even publish WH under the wotc name, and would instead create a subdivision, or buy Games Workshop whole and have them keep making the game.

The brand is what matters to them, really. And those two brands are just too different but with some names in common to mix without confusion. The kind of confusion that loses money.

Except Wonder Woman and Aquaman.

And Shazaam. And the preview of upcoming stuff looks really good.

 

[Steampunkette]

And Shazaam. And the preview of upcoming stuff looks really good.

How could I forget SHAZAM!?

Perfect version of the character, great central story, amazing finale with the Marvels all joining in...

Yeah. Shazam is a banger and a half because they let it be RIDICULOUS and wild and fun!

 

[doctorbadwolf]

How could I forget SHAZAM!?

Perfect version of the character, great central story, amazing finale with the Marvels all joining in...

Yeah. Shazam is a banger and a half because they let it be RIDICULOUS and wild and fun!

Hell yeah. They’ve leaned more and more into who the characters are, rather than trying to reinvent them, and it works.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

Shazam worked because it was action+comedy, a fun movie could be watched even by people who don't like superheroes. But the children actors get old "fastly".

Didn't Hasbro want to acquire Lions gate?

Hasbro doesn't need GW, but it wants, they could acquire some forgotten franchise of sci-fi/fantasy miniature wargame as a cheaper option. But the true challenge is to sell a product when the most of players only want to play the most popular title because to find players who choose for other titles is harder. And if WotC sells a miniatue wargame using the d20 system, then 3PPs could produce their own proxies and this would be totally legal thanks the open licence. WotC could publish a skirmish wargame with gangs set in Gamma World.

We know nothing about their projects, for example future videogames in developing.