Fixing defenses through ability boosts

[eriktheguy]

Call me crazy, but I am considering a drastic houserule. What if at levels 4/8/14/18/24/28, characters got +1 to EVERY ability score instead of just two of them.
I know you're all thinking WTF right now, thats crazy talk!
But an edition ago, PCs were getting +5 total to ability scores on their way to top level, now they are getting +24. That's pretty crazy too.

Balance-wise, this would improve players lowest defenses, in addition it stops classes with a focus in two ablities from the same category from getting screwed over on two defenses (rage barbs, axe fighters, wand wizards...).

I'm sure you've all read the threads ranting about how the PC's defenses are all too low, this could help fix.

It's not that far fetched that players get a little bit better at everything as they level, they're heroes!

Chances are the players won't get too overpowered. All my characters use one ability score for 90% of rolls, and that one was going up anyways. This houserule would just make characters a bit better at things they suck at.

Remember that three of the ability scores on most character sheets go unused as far as defenses are concerned, and four usually go unused for attacks. Chances are that half of the abilities improved by this house-rule are just going to affect little things, +2 to perception here, a little initiative bonus there, maybe a few extra hit points.

I don't really care if you don't like my houserule, I just want to know if anyone thinks its too imbalanced or abusive. The current system of +1 to your two best stats is just so 'yawn' to me. Why does my fighter's strength need to start 6 points higher than wis, and end 12 points above it? My lowest defenses scale terribly, and by epic tier, I fail any skill check that isn't trained and one of my main abilities.

I can dabble in various fighter powers at level 1, using axes and swords if I want. But by level 15 the discrepancy between Con and Dex is so bad that I can only really use one of them. Oh, and if I took axes my ref defense sucks.

 

[Flipguarder]

1. At epic level you'd qualify for almost all the weapon feats no matter who you are, or what your abilities are.
2. Skill ability would too high overall.
3. I believe we are SUPPOSED to have a few defenses lag behind the others So in fact, the fix itself is a little imbalanced imo.
4. In general the two ability scores you raise are going to be attack bonus and one other, probably either defense or "extra effect on hit" bonus. Eliminating the choice between those is a little imbalancing.

Im sure if you dug deeper you'd find some real sick ways to abuse this system.

 

[eriktheguy]

1. At epic level you'd qualify for almost all the weapon feats no matter who you are, or what your abilities are.

True, but I don't see the balance issue. Flavour-wise, it makes sense that you should only be able to master weapons you are built to use, but in practice I doubt anyone would take all the weapon feats or imbalance their character. They are still going to focus mostly on their main weapon.

2. Skill ability would too high overall.

Skills you are not trained in and that are not listed for your main stats are still going to be a good 7 or more points lower than your good skill checks. This is enough to still draw a contrast between your skills.

3. I believe we are SUPPOSED to have a few defenses lag behind the others So in fact, the fix itself is a little imbalanced imo.

Low defenses will still lag behind. A fighter starting with 18 Str and 12 Wis has a Fort def 5 points higher than Will. With my system the Will defense remains so to level 30. Under the conventional system the fighter's Will is 8 points behind the Fort.

4. In general the two ability scores you raise are going to be attack bonus and one other, probably either defense or "extra effect on hit" bonus. Eliminating the choice between those is a little imbalancing.

Im sure if you dug deeper you'd find some real sick ways to abuse this system.

This choice is already not there for many classes. A rogue can improve two defenses and their brutal or artful abilities at the same time, but the axe fighter and wand wizard are forced to choose. I don't see either of these classes getting enough compensation to make up for -3 to a defense over their career. I think the feat helps level the playing field.

Thank you for your input. I still don't see any drastic imbalances that this house-rule would create and I would be happy if it encouraged players to try some of the less desirable class combos such as wand wizards and axe fighters. I have never seen either of these builds used.

 

[Flipguarder]

I might have come off more negative than I meant to. For being a such a radical idea, the fact that I couldn't think of a horrible break in the system for a good 5 minutes of heavy searching bodes fairly well for it. I know you don't really care what I think, but its my opinion that the discrepancy is part of the balancing system. This is also coming from a Warden who's most likely going to use a hammer too so you know I'd be in favor of this system for my own character's optimization.

I'm fairly confident that if you got a party of five under this system for a campaign that they would find something fairly overpowered. But its not as if they can't do that in the current system anyway.

Good work!

 

[keterys]

I doubt it would really break much, though it would make certain build types like Battlerager much more viable and certain slightly exclusive powers like Rain of Blows a bit easier to obtain.

In 3e, you could actually get +6 enhancement to every ability score and +5 inherent to each, and racial bonuses could actually get way up there with feats and such. So, hey, whatever.

I'm considering going the opposite direction and not giving any ability score bumps at all, and seeing where that takes me.

 

[eriktheguy]

I doubt it would really break much, though it would make certain build types like Battlerager much more viable and certain slightly exclusive powers like Rain of Blows a bit easier to obtain.

In 3e, you could actually get +6 enhancement to every ability score and +5 inherent to each, and racial bonuses could actually get way up there with feats and such. So, hey, whatever.

I'm considering going the opposite direction and not giving any ability score bumps at all, and seeing where that takes me.

Yeah, rage barbarians may abuse this. I'm considering knocking off their AC bonus for light armor, or at least keeping it at 1.

 

[keterys]

In this system I suspect they shouldn't get an AC bonus at all, since the stat bumps will take care of it.

Same for Centered Breath monks and a number of other stat-fixes of a like nature.

That's perhaps the greatest danger is that WotC realized the danger after making the PH1 and has been good about addressing it with +1 per tier fixes.

 

[Garthanos]

Yeah, rage barbarians may abuse this. I'm considering knocking off their AC bonus for light armor, or at least keeping it at 1.

I would keep it at one... given they have to wait 8 levels before getting another +1 due to stat boosting (it seems a significant wait almost as much as they would have RAW)

 

[eriktheguy]

In this system I suspect they shouldn't get an AC bonus at all, since the stat bumps will take care of it.

Same for Centered Breath monks and a number of other stat-fixes of a like nature.

That's perhaps the greatest danger is that WotC realized the danger after making the PH1 and has been good about addressing it with +1 per tier fixes.

I would keep it at one... given they have to wait 8 levels before getting another +1 due to stat boosting (it seems a significant wait almost as much as they would have RAW)

I agree with Garthanos on this one. The +1 AC initially makes up for the player dumping Int and Dex at level 1, and preventing it from scaling stops the build from becoming too defensive at higher levels now that their Dex goes up as well.
I've looked at the rage barb and don't think its broken. I still prefer rogues anyways.

 

[Elric]

There's plenty of discussion of similar options http://www.enworld.org/forum/4e-fan...ves-feat-tax-solution-hit-f-r-w-defenses.html. I think adding to 3 ability scores is better than all 6, as it avoids the "why is my Barbarian so darn smart, again?" feeling, but covers all of your FRW defenses if you spread the ability score increases.