Flurry of Blows + Two Weapon Fighting?

[Ottergame]

In 3.5, there is no more BAB and unarmed BAB for monks. Monks simply use their BAB like every other class. Monk weapons can be used in a flurry of blows.

Blah, I must still be in 3.0 mode.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Note that since "There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed", a monk can't use TWF for extra attacks unless he's wielding weapons. And he can only Flurry unarmed or with special monk weapons.

Therefore you can only combine extra attacks from TWF with extra attacks from Flurry of Blows while wielding special monk weapons.

Add Rapid Shot, Haste, and multiclass into a full BAB class for a few levels, and you can throw 11 shuriken a round as (say) a Monk12/Ftr8.

-Hyp.

 

[Ottergame]

Note that since "There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed", a monk can't use TWF for extra attacks unless he's wielding weapons. And he can only Flurry unarmed or with special monk weapons.

Therefore you can only combine extra attacks from TWF with extra attacks from Flurry of Blows while wielding special monk weapons.

Add Rapid Shot, Haste, and multiclass into a full BAB class for a few levels, and you can throw 11 shuriken a round as (say) a Monk12/Ftr8.

-Hyp.

You don't get an extra attack from the TWF feat though. All it does is reduce the penatlies for using two weapons, a penalty that a monk doesn't have to begin with. They have a -2 penalty on each attack when using Flurry, but that penalty comes from the Flurry ability itself, not from using two monk weapons.

 

[Hypersmurf]

You don't get an extra attack from the TWF feat though. All it does is reduce the penatlies for using two weapons, a penalty that a monk doesn't have to begin with. They have a -2 penalty on each attack when using Flurry, but that penalty comes from the Flurry ability itself, not from using two monk weapons.

That's right.

But according to the general combat rules, if you wield a second weapon in your off-hand, you can make an extra attack. The Improved TWF and Greater TWF feats provide for another two off-hand attacks.

But a monk striking unarmed cannot make any of these extra attacks, because for him, there is no such thing as an off-hand attack.

If he is not striking unarmed - for instance, if he's wielding a pair of kama, or throwing shuriken with both hands - then he can use the general rule to make an off-hand attack (or more than one, with the right feats)... and since they're special monk weapons, he can also flurry, since nothing in the rules prohibits him doing both.

-Hyp.

 

[Ranger REG]

I'm still waiting for the Sage's answer.

 

[Ottergame]

I don't see that as being in the spirit of the rules though. I feel it's supposed to be either two weapon fighting OR Flurry, not both at the same time.

Can you tell me on what page it says additional attacks from different sources stack? As far as I can see, Flurry of Blows is it's own Full Attack action, and doesn't get more attacks from using two weapons.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I'm still waiting for the Sage's answer.

There are two possible outcomes.

Either he'll agree with the rules as written, in which case his endorsement is nice, but nothing actually changes...

... or he'll disagree with the rules as written, in which case people will point out that he hasn't read the rules in question, ignore his answer... and nothing actually changes

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

As far as I can see, Flurry of Blows is it's own Full Attack action, and doesn't get more attacks from using two weapons.

No, Flurry of Blows is a class feature that allows a monk to make extra attacks when he makes a Full Attack action.

Like Rapid Shot, or Haste, or attacking with two weapons, or extra attacks from a high BAB.

Haste: When making a full attack action, a hasted creature may make one extra attack with any weapon he is holding.

Rapid Shot: You can get one extra attack per round with a ranged weapon. You must use the full attack action to use this feat.

Flurry of Blows: When unarmored, a monk may strike with a flurry of blows at the expense of accuracy. When doing so, she may make one extra attack in a round at her highest base attack bonus. A monk must use a full attack action to strike with a flurry of blows.

High BAB or TWF: If you get more than one attack per round because your base attack bonus is high enough, because you fight with two weapons or a double weapon or for some special reason you must use a full-round action to get your additional attacks.

None of these are separate actions; they are all things that can be done if you are making a full attack action.

-Hyp.

 

[Ottergame]

If I understand you right, you would let a monk, at first level, have 3 attacks per round, at a -4, -4, -4? And that a level 20 monk with all the right PHB feats would have a +13, +13, +13, +8, +3, +13, +8, +3?

 

[Scion]

If I understand you right, you would let a monk, at first level, have 3 attacks per round, at a -4, -4, -4? And that a level 20 monk with all the right PHB feats would have a +13, +13, +13, +8, +3, +13, +8, +3?

Huge feat investment (min 3), penalties all over (extra negatives), useing weapons that probably do less damage than he would without useing them (assuming a standard way to let monks enhance their unnarmed strikes, 2d10 is better than most weapons)... all in all doesnt sound too bad for a character concept. Make sure at least one is a weapon of speed or get someone to cast haste on you