cangrejoide
First Post
You gonna need to do this poll again..it is still missing some options.
There is no 1st/2n or even OD&D options.
There is no 1st/2n or even OD&D options.
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For real this time: What is your stance on 4e
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Verdande
First Post
I love 4e, I really do.
I taught my girlfriend how to play in under half an hour. I let her choose her race and her class, and we were off in playing before you know it.
It was refreshing after all those long years of 3e not to have to tell people what races sucked with what class, and what classes (paladin, fighter) weren't worth taking at all. Now, I can say "Hey, pick any race and any class," and you know what? It's at least playable.
As a major plus: playing a first level game was FUN. I didn't have to coddle them, or make sure they only fought 1d2 rats until they had more than 6 hp. They had multiple things to do, each and every round. Every player at that game was having fun, including me.
It's been a while since a game has been this much fun. 4e for life!
I taught my girlfriend how to play in under half an hour. I let her choose her race and her class, and we were off in playing before you know it.
It was refreshing after all those long years of 3e not to have to tell people what races sucked with what class, and what classes (paladin, fighter) weren't worth taking at all. Now, I can say "Hey, pick any race and any class," and you know what? It's at least playable.
As a major plus: playing a first level game was FUN. I didn't have to coddle them, or make sure they only fought 1d2 rats until they had more than 6 hp. They had multiple things to do, each and every round. Every player at that game was having fun, including me.
It's been a while since a game has been this much fun. 4e for life!
CleverNickName
Limit Break Dancing (He/They)
I own the books.
I have played the game.
I have not DM'd the game.
I will be staying with three-five.
No hate or hard feelings here. The new edition seems solid, and WotC seems to have accomplished everything that they set out to do with it, and I'm sure it will be a success. It just isn't my style.
I have played the game.
I have not DM'd the game.
I will be staying with three-five.
No hate or hard feelings here. The new edition seems solid, and WotC seems to have accomplished everything that they set out to do with it, and I'm sure it will be a success. It just isn't my style.
Gothmog
First Post
I got really disillusioned with 3.x after playing it for a few years. Yes, standardizing the mechanics was a plus over previous editions, but the complexity of the system and its underlying assumptions/flaws drove me away. It felt and played like a computer game, with too many variables, options, and interconnectedness to make a good tabletop RPG.
However, I'm loving 4E so far. It took the best bits of 3E (unified mechanics, SOME character customization) and streamlined the whole game to make it something much more playable, balanced, and fun. I swore off ever DMing 3.x years ago, and I'm holding to that promise. Only one DM friend I know could ever get me to play 3.x again, and he likes 4E much more as well, so I have to say my 3.x days are over (and that given I probably have about $5000 of 3.x stuff).
So basically, 3.x was a test run to work out the bugs and identify the major problem areas for the new and improved version of D&D...4E!
However, I'm loving 4E so far. It took the best bits of 3E (unified mechanics, SOME character customization) and streamlined the whole game to make it something much more playable, balanced, and fun. I swore off ever DMing 3.x years ago, and I'm holding to that promise. Only one DM friend I know could ever get me to play 3.x again, and he likes 4E much more as well, so I have to say my 3.x days are over (and that given I probably have about $5000 of 3.x stuff).
So basically, 3.x was a test run to work out the bugs and identify the major problem areas for the new and improved version of D&D...4E!
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Aus_Snow
First Post
Increasingly, it's a matter of 'Mutants & Masterminds for as many things as possible'. Which happens to be more and more, as time goes on and I learn more about how that amazing system can be used.
I am curious to see how Pathfinder turns out though. I really do like 3e, and an improved version might just hook me in, for that 'D&D fix' now and then. Paizo makes awesome stuff, so I'm reasonably confident there.
True20 has made a reappearance here too, and I consider it fairly interchangeable with M&M when it comes to many things. In some, it still has the edge, at least at this stage.
I don't own the 4e books, but - in part thanks to knowing the FLGS owner well enough - have read through them quite thoroughly, and I kept up with the previews, blogs, discussions and so on. No-one I know has even bought the books either, let alone run a game, so obviously I haven't played it. Or run it, duh.
4e is certainly the worst edition ever, IMO. And I have owned, played and DMed most of them. I don't need to play the thing to know that this is true, subjectively. There have been a number of RPGs I've looked into over the years, gone 'meh' (or worse) and not looked at again. This is just another one of those, that's all. No big deal, nothing lost, for me personally. And, considering no-one else around here is going with 4e either, it makes the whole non-process that much smoother and easier.
I am curious to see how Pathfinder turns out though. I really do like 3e, and an improved version might just hook me in, for that 'D&D fix' now and then. Paizo makes awesome stuff, so I'm reasonably confident there.
True20 has made a reappearance here too, and I consider it fairly interchangeable with M&M when it comes to many things. In some, it still has the edge, at least at this stage.
I don't own the 4e books, but - in part thanks to knowing the FLGS owner well enough - have read through them quite thoroughly, and I kept up with the previews, blogs, discussions and so on. No-one I know has even bought the books either, let alone run a game, so obviously I haven't played it. Or run it, duh.
4e is certainly the worst edition ever, IMO. And I have owned, played and DMed most of them. I don't need to play the thing to know that this is true, subjectively. There have been a number of RPGs I've looked into over the years, gone 'meh' (or worse) and not looked at again. This is just another one of those, that's all. No big deal, nothing lost, for me personally. And, considering no-one else around here is going with 4e either, it makes the whole non-process that much smoother and easier.
frankthedm said:
Tactics are primarily because of Movement and Position, and all through Keep on the Shadowfell there is superior cover options which makes you a -5 to hit.
Also, the system of attack bonuses and saves is no longer mathemathically out of balance so a +1 or +2 modifier has more of an effect then it did in 3.x.
EricNoah said:
Eric
I completely respect your position on 4e. From my experience with it now (DMing over 60 hrs worth of games and getting players to 4th level) 4e is setup to add or take out rules you don't want. Marks can just be dropped or changed (although I personally like them now). Bloodied just shows when a monster or PC is more hurt than healthy and so triggers certain effects that make sense (dragonborn fury, oozes splitting etc). What every DM I have spoken to that loves loves so much and why you are seeing alot of posts about never DMing 3.5 again is because with 4e you can DM however you want and every game element is drag and drop. Monsters, obstacles, magic items, quest rewards and all of the other crunchy goodness of the game are like a big box of legos or photoshop, letting me tweak and change to my hearts desire very quickly.
The other beautiful element is the game teachs and guides players into DMing. I have a friend who first started really playing D&D with this edition, and he had never DMed, and after our first 20 hours with the system he ran a game for the first time like he had being doing it for years. It was amazing.
4e has some really strong merits for growing the hobby and giving you alot of cool material to work with. I recommend dinking around with it a bit more before dismissing it.
Any rate, peace and if you don't want to drink the kool aid we still luv ya
Couple other comments I want to throw out there about 4e.
I want to second the comment about the wife/ girlfriend picking it up. My wife has always played D&D with us. She is a gamer. We met gaming and have been married 13 years now. We own a game store. She has played magic, warhammer, every edition of D&D and more. She hated building characters for D&D 3.x. She can handle everything else (writing up armies, building 2nd edition characters, white wolf characters, building non-competive magic decks, etc). 3.x frutstarted her with the choices and how the math inter connected akwardly. With 4e she grabbed her PHB and built all of her characters on her own. She loves it.
Also, what I appreciate the most about 4e is the "disney" and "video gamey" elements are gone. I know everyone has their opinion about these things but here is what I really didn't like about previous versions of D&D:
Animate spells (making furiture move like animals)
Growth spells (giant sized children or cute animals is bad)
Polymorph abuse (dropping whales on people kind of stuff)
Death being trival
Un-heroic moments with to much randomness (hit points, save or die)
Buff spells and boosting items being necessary
Christmas Tree effect
the old-style gnome (the new one to me is much less silly)
D&D 4e has some very serious feeling rules in them. Elements that at first glance I thought wouldn't work and now that I am playing I really like:
Healing Surges (which represent your strength of spirit and vitality) make the game more tense and grittier. Healing spells eat up a charcter's surges as they are healed. This means it is more tense and easier to die in the midst of battle in 4e then in 3.5.
Action Points are great.
Encounter and daily powerrs make management of duration easy. So do round based effect with saving throws.
The combat has much more movement instead of standing in place and whacking after a 5' step. It makes combat very dynamic.
Rituals have a very cool more beliveable fantasy feel. They are much better ways to do raise the dead, speak with dead, teleportation, protection verse evil etc than the old way. Ritual users feel like they are tapping into arcane rituals giving a lost, ancient power feel to these spells. Any one can do them with the right training which makes them feel like occult lore.
Anyrate, these to me are the two big selling points on 4e. Easy to run and teach. Very gritty fantasy feel without the video game/ disney stuff with better tactics. You can't relly see either of these until you run a game a few times with a normal group. It was about our 3rd session when it started to really click and we looked past the shock of the differences between this edition and 3.5
I want to second the comment about the wife/ girlfriend picking it up. My wife has always played D&D with us. She is a gamer. We met gaming and have been married 13 years now. We own a game store. She has played magic, warhammer, every edition of D&D and more. She hated building characters for D&D 3.x. She can handle everything else (writing up armies, building 2nd edition characters, white wolf characters, building non-competive magic decks, etc). 3.x frutstarted her with the choices and how the math inter connected akwardly. With 4e she grabbed her PHB and built all of her characters on her own. She loves it.
Also, what I appreciate the most about 4e is the "disney" and "video gamey" elements are gone. I know everyone has their opinion about these things but here is what I really didn't like about previous versions of D&D:
Animate spells (making furiture move like animals)
Growth spells (giant sized children or cute animals is bad)
Polymorph abuse (dropping whales on people kind of stuff)
Death being trival
Un-heroic moments with to much randomness (hit points, save or die)
Buff spells and boosting items being necessary
Christmas Tree effect
the old-style gnome (the new one to me is much less silly)
D&D 4e has some very serious feeling rules in them. Elements that at first glance I thought wouldn't work and now that I am playing I really like:
Healing Surges (which represent your strength of spirit and vitality) make the game more tense and grittier. Healing spells eat up a charcter's surges as they are healed. This means it is more tense and easier to die in the midst of battle in 4e then in 3.5.
Action Points are great.
Encounter and daily powerrs make management of duration easy. So do round based effect with saving throws.
The combat has much more movement instead of standing in place and whacking after a 5' step. It makes combat very dynamic.
Rituals have a very cool more beliveable fantasy feel. They are much better ways to do raise the dead, speak with dead, teleportation, protection verse evil etc than the old way. Ritual users feel like they are tapping into arcane rituals giving a lost, ancient power feel to these spells. Any one can do them with the right training which makes them feel like occult lore.
Anyrate, these to me are the two big selling points on 4e. Easy to run and teach. Very gritty fantasy feel without the video game/ disney stuff with better tactics. You can't relly see either of these until you run a game a few times with a normal group. It was about our 3rd session when it started to really click and we looked past the shock of the differences between this edition and 3.5
dougmander
Explorer
Actively dislike the direction 4e has taken, and don't need to spend $90 on the core books to confirm my suspicions, based on reading many, many reviews of the game. So I'm out of D&D entirely -- the mental gymnastics of running high level 3e games has burned me out, and 4e has basically gutted the game for me, so bye-bye.
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