For the first time ever, I've banned a player class from my table

[Glyfair]

So, let's see what the problem might be:

1. Eberron.

2. The Artificer class.

3. The "Dual Wand Wield" feat, which sounds like it comes from a non-core book.

4. The player.

In my opinion, the problem is partly #3, but mostly #4. We have here the classic twink/munchkin player.

5. Mis-application of the rules.

I suspect it's number 5, but there are a lot of details missing.

What "spell" was the artificer casting? (I assume reveal meant infusion - an important distinction in some cases). Breaking down the abilities actually used would help pinpointing the problem.

"Double Wand Wielder" is also an issue. Keith has recommended not using this feat in Eberron, because it treads on an Eberron prestige class schtick (Cannith Wand Adept, mentioned above). Complete Arcane has a number of feats that shouldn't be moved to Eberron because of flavor (not normally power level, though).

Also, assuming that "suppress requirement" was cast (even if incorrectly), it costs 500 gp to cast, also - for each wand. That's no small cost, either.

Breaking down the mostly likely combinations given above, it won't be done often. The artificer will be burning through wands like crazy. Sure, they can get around the XP cost, but it will still cost them gold. Lots of gold. Lots and lots of gold.

 

[Tinner]

I haven't banned a class yet, but I will have to think long ad hard before I ever allow another Shadowdancer into one of my games. After the last solo'd a Titan, I think they might be a little broken.

 

[Glyfair]

Now I'm confused. Why would she have been burning XP's to use normal wands?

Power Surge infusion, gives a wnad or staff 1 temporary charge per 5 caster levels. Casting the infusion costs 5xp x the level of the highest level spell in the item. So, the empowered Scorching Ray would cost either 10xp or 20xp (does Empowered increase this cost? - I'd think so).

BTW, you can't use your craft reserve for this infusion since it explicitly is only used for crafting magic items.

 

[Ero Gaki]

I wouldn't ban the class. Having played an Artificer myself, I find that it is fairly balanced. If you go and ban the artificer because of one effective use of its abilities. You might as well ban all the classes ever produced. Given the right tactics and feats, any class can be "broken."

If you must do anything, get rid of duel wand wielder. It would hurt the combat effectiveness. I would waste my time with Baker's retarded cannith wand loser, however.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

Expensive wands too. Each one would have cost her 10,500gp to make unless she has Extraordinary Artisan. At five charges a pop to twin, she'd go through party cash way quick.

Archer-type. Ranged Sunder, from CW. "Oh, there went your wand. What? You can't do anything now? Sorry!"

My DM explicitly stated he was going to do that to anybody who kept using all wands, all the time, in combat.

Brad

 

[domino]

Would he do the same to anybody who kept using bows all the time in combat?

 

[kolikeos]

So last night she whips out two wands (Dual Wand Wielder feat) and casts an Artificer spell. She then uses an Artificer ability to add a metamagic feat the Artificer has and apply it to the wands. She has two Empowered Scorching Ray Wands that she made. She casts the spell in one round, casts it again in the next round and, in the next round, fires the wands. She twins the wands and fires a total of 12 Empowered Scorching Rays. That's a total damage of 52d6 points of damage. And, because of the spell, it costs one charge on the first wand and 2 on the second. And she did it the next round and, if combat hadn't ended, could have done it for the next 10 rounds. And she could have done it many many times and it didn't cost her anything (much) since she could gain XP to put into her XP Pool and gold from breaking down items as she progressed.

After the session, I asked everyone what they thought of the Artificer. Everyone, including the Artificer's player, said it was just way too overpowered. The player had used the rules very well and there was no cheating involved, which made it even worse. At that point I did something I've never done before in the 14 years I've been playing/DMing; I banned a player class from my games. In that one session, I found out just how "munchkiny" the Artificer is. I hated doing it but the player understood as did everyone else. I let her keep the XP she earned and told her to just bring in a new character for the next session.

although i have not the slightest knowledge about eberron classes (so i don't know if this class you're talking about is really overpowerd) i think that every class can be made into something more powerful if the player knows how to biuld the character.
i had a player in my group that always had a character way more powerful then the others no matter what class he chose, weather it was ranger, paladin or wizard, he was always the top killer when they started reaching the mid-high levels.

 

[Roudi]

So, let's see what the problem might be:

I'll add #6 to the list: The Game Master. No offence meant; just hear me out.

She can pull off an amazing amount of fire damage from those wands. That doesn't mean that she can surmount any challenge. Throw some creatures with significant Spell Resistance, Fire Resistance, or immunity to fire damage at her, and those 52 dice of fire damage suddenly don't seem so significant.

Also, being able to deal such an amount of damage means that intelligent foes will focus on knocking her out of combat first. If done right, her character will likely have a harder time in combat and getting off shots from her wands if she wants to fight AND survive. This means the GM needs the right tactics.

Really smart foes will try and surprise the Artificer, sneak attack her, or take her wands away when she's asleep.

If you're really short on ideas, you could just try throwing higher challenge ratings at the party.

My point is that there are a lot of in-game ways to deal with a perceived balance problem, rather than resorting to banning a player class. I'm not telling you what to do at your own gaming table, because that's your sovereign domain; but, I do feel the need to present more options.

 

[Glyfair]

I'll add #6 to the list: The Game Master. No offence meant; just hear me out.

Really, I don't put the blame on the GM, at least for the reasons you say. If there is an obnoxious "combo" that a GM has to constantly be prepared to deal with, that takes away much of the fun of running the game. Every encounter shouldn't come down to "how am I going to handle "X" combo this time?"

If this was a legitimate (i.e. by the rules) combination, then I can see two options. Personally, as a player, I'd completely avoid it. Being that obnoxious isn't fun, it's boring.

Second, do as we've tried to do and break down the combo and see where the problem lies. Sometimes, you'll see you ruled something wrong (in this case, any number of things might not have been done according to the rules). Sometimes, you'll find a problem spot you'll want to disallow or tweak (IMO, the easiest target here is Double Wand Wielder - especially since there is a harder to get and much more balanced variation in Eberron).

 

[Roudi]

Every encounter shouldn't come down to "how am I going to handle "X" combo this time?"

Personally, I find such situations to be most entertaining. If a player wants to be abusive, then I can be abusive right back... I find my players learn quickly and don't repeat that kind of play style. But, to each their own. I think I might be a bit too Pavlovian in my GMing style, compared to most.