For the first time ever, I've banned a player class from my table

[DungeonmasterCal]

All this explains why one of the guys I know wants to play an Artificer. He's the undisputed master of using the RAW to uber-power a character. Good thing he won't be playing it in any game I run.

 

[VirgilCaine]

So has anyone else had to do this? Ban a player class or just not let someone play an Eberron Artificer?

I think your problem is with Scorching Ray. That should be a third level spell, not second--that was IMO Flame Arrows primary mode not the arrow boost.
All I had to hear was the bonus type switching power, and that convinced me--it's a messed up class.

Edit:
And then there's the whole thing with not charging for the extra charges. And the "suppress requirement" spell misapplication.

 

[Mystery Man]

I think your problem is with Scorching Ray. That should be a third level spell, not second--that was IMO Flame Arrows primary mode not the arrow boost.
All I had to hear was the bonus type switching power, and that convinced me--it's a messed up class.

I disagree, I think scorching ray is fine as a second level spell. It's what you can do with that spell at much higher levels! Increasing the casting level of the spell won't stop that.

 

[VirgilCaine]

I disagree, I think scorching ray is fine as a second level spell. It's what you can do with that spell at much higher levels! Increasing the casting level of the spell won't stop that.

My point is that Scorching Ray was Flame Arrow's (IMO) primary mode and thus should be a 3rd level spell just like the arrow boost mode has become.

 

[Mystery Man]

Last session I played smart NPCs and did almost kill her. The Hill Giant archers made her the target and the Hill Giant cleric did the same. They all did until the archers no longer had line of sight on her and the cleric was fighting people directly in front of him.

Remember at this point in the game hill giants can fly and casters can dimension door/teleport anywhere they need to be. Line of sight problems should be rare. Sounds like you gave her a run for her money though.

 

[Mystery Man]

My point is that Scorching Ray was Flame Arrow's (IMO) primary mode and thus should be a 3rd level spell just like the arrow boost mode has become.

Oh I understood you, my point is that at level 13+ it doesn't matter if scorching ray is level 2 or 3 and its far more deadly with the things that you can do with it. I loved that spell at low levels, I freaking hate it now. Well, pseudo-now, I'm taking a break from running my game until the end of the summer and kibitzing others.

 

[cmanos]

I don't think the problem is the artificer class...I think it is that anyone can twink out a character if they want.

 

[VirgilCaine]

Oh I understood you, my point is that at level 13+ it doesn't matter if scorching ray is level 2 or 3 and its far more deadly with the things that you can do with it. I loved that spell at low levels, I freaking hate it now. Well, pseudo-now, I'm taking a break from running my game until the end of the summer and kibitzing others.

It makes a big difference on a wand, especially, a high caster level wand. Without a wand, you (IMO) wouldn't see that spell more than three or four times on a spell list at high levels.

 

[Rel]

I'm running an Eberron campaign that had and Artificer in it (right up until the TPK last session) but he was being played by a player who is not a Powergamer at all. But I've looked carefully at the class with the eye of a Tactician and my perception is this:

When the PC's get to pick the fight then the Artificer is worth his weight in gold. When the PC's get surprised then the Artificer is much less of a factor unless he has prepared for a broad spectrum of situations with expendable magic items.

What, IMHO, makes the power of the Artficer much more palatable is the fact that he tends to really shine when he's enhancing the powers of the other PC's and that is fun for everybody.

 

[reveal]

Ok. I asked the player the process for the wand. Here is what I got. I obviously missed some details at the table (considering I was keeping track of 17 bad guys against 6 good guys, I'm allowed that one ). I will quote where possible to make sure I don't get it wrong.

1. There was only one Wand of Empower Scorching Ray. The other wand was a wand of fireballs she didn't use at the time.

2. "It was a 9th level caster (bumped to 11th due to wand mastery) wand of empowered scorching ray."

3. "Total cost was 27000gp and each charge came out to be 540gp."

4. "She got the twined on it by casting a 3rd level artificer spell named something like Metamagic Item that lasted 12 rounds and applied a metamagic feat (Twin Spell) she knew to the wand for the durration [sic] with no extra charge cost."

So she used a combination of a fully purchased wand, a spell from the Eberron book and a known Metmagic feat to get the Twinned Scorching Rays. How much XP should this cost her per use of wand?