Force Orb Question

[James McMurray]

What are you talking about? Nobody said anything about increasing the range of powers by targetting objects. Not to mention that a blue dragon's breath specifically targets creatures. No wonder you think its broken, if you're reading nonsense into it like that.

 

[Guyanthalas]

For those of you interested in play balance issues, Morgan_Scott and I did some mathmatics to find out if there was an imbalance for the potential "exploit".

Average weighted damage of attacking the creature NOT the square is higher. The more creatures that surround the primary target decreases the difference in damage.

Raw numbers assuming a 95% chance to hit the ground, and a 60% chance to hit a creature.

With 4 additional targets:
Target Creature - Target Ground = 2.88672

With 8 additional targets:
Target Creature - Target Ground = 2.560999

However, this math did bring up an interesting debate...

Morgan_Scott: Granted Force orb targets up to a lot more than 9 creatures.
Guyanthalas: it can, if you are working in 3D
Morgan_Scott: Oh crap
Guyanthalas: What?
Morgan_Scott: targeting the ground attacks every creature on the planet.
Morgan_Scott: all creatures adjacent to the primary target
Guyanthalas: Yeah, you can do the math on that.

Have fun trolls!

 

[DracoSuave]

What are you talking about? Nobody said anything about increasing the range of powers by targetting objects. Not to mention that a blue dragon's breath specifically targets creatures. No wonder you think its broken, if you're reading nonsense into it like that.

The DMG allows abilities that target creatures to be used against objects if the DM thinks it is reasonable. Given that we're talking about a monster here, it's quite possible the DM thinks it is reasonable.

Electricity grounds -and- arcs. That's not even a -stretch- to consider as 'reasonable' to some DMs.

 

[James McMurray]

That's wholeyunrelated to an ability that specifically says it targets objects, and is completely up to the GM to decide. One does not necessitate the other.

 

[DracoSuave]

So the fact that the players are trying to justify the ground as an object has nothing to do with the Dm trying to justify the ground as an object?

They aren't related, by virtue of being the exact same thing?

Funny, they look -exactly the same- to me.

And to logic.

 

[DracoSuave]

Also, I just realized if the ground is an object, a wizard could cast light and the world never worries about the night time ever.

I wonder why wizards don't do that....

 

[Regicide]

Also, I just realized if the ground is an object, a wizard could cast light and the world never worries about the night time ever.

I wonder why wizards don't do that....

If two objects touch each other they're one object? Where is that one written? And lets not forget about the atmosphere.

 

[James McMurray]

So the fact that the players are trying to justify the ground as an object has nothing to do with the Dm trying to justify the ground as an object?

They aren't related, by virtue of being the exact same thing?

Funny, they look -exactly the same- to me.

And to logic.

Force Orb says it targets objects. If the ground is an object, Force Orb can target it. a black dragon's breath weapon targets creatures. If the ground is an object, it can't target it unless the GM adds another step to his decision making process. So yes, they're similar. But no, one does not necessitate the other.

You're sying that because 1 + x = 2, 1 + x + y = 3. That ain't logic, atleast not any kind I've heard of.

 

[DracoSuave]

Actually my logic is of the form if 1+x=2, then 1+x+y=2 where y=0.

But nice try.

 

[DracoSuave]

If two objects touch each other they're one object? Where is that one written? And lets not forget about the atmosphere.

If the ground is an object, how large is the ground? If it is a singular square then it's a Medium object and would have comparable defenses to a medium creature. If it is larger and therefore easier to hit (as they are claiming) then it must be a very large object indeed. Which means you look in three dimensions to see where said ground seeses to be a continguous object.

You might not get the entire planet this way, but you'll be able to score the continent, complete with the underwater continental shelves. (assuming an earth-style tectonic system) If you don't have shifting continents tho, then you'll hit the entire world.