D&D 5E Forced March question

[Quickleaf]

For an upcoming adventure, I need to understand how to handle a 20-hour forced march spanning around 50 miles (80 km). That's almost two marathons long, and not far off from the 100km "loaded" march a Caporal in the French Foreign Legion must complete within 24 hours.

This is in jungle terrain which, due to the challenging nature of traversing the jungle, allows PCs at a normal travel place to cover 10 miles per 8-hour day, or with a fast pace 20 miles.

According to the PHB:
[SECTION]Forced March. The Travel Pace table assumes that characters travel for 8 hours in day. They can push on beyond that limit, at the risk of Exhaustion.
For each additional hour of travel beyond 8 hours, the characters cover the distance shown in the Hour column for their pace, and each character must make a Constitution saving throw at the end of the hour.
The DC is 10 + 1 for each hour past 8 hours. On a failed saving throw, a character suffers one level of Exhaustion (see Conditions ).[/SECTION]

Would this be handled as a DC 22 Con save, and if you fail you suffer one level of exhaustion?

Or would it be more accurate to adapt those rules creatively...? For example, you make a DC 20 Con save, and every degree of 5 that you fail by you suffer a level of exhaustion, so 15-19 = one exhaustion level, 10-14 = two exhaustion levels, 5-9 = three exhaustion levels, 0-4 = four exhaustion levels.

I realize the core rules may not account for this sort of scenario exactly, but I'm curious to hear the perspectives of my fellow gamers.

 

[Ovinomancer]

For an upcoming adventure, I need to understand how to handle a 20-hour forced march spanning around 50 miles (80 km). That's almost two marathons long, and not far off from the 100km "loaded" march a Caporal in the French Foreign Legion must complete within 24 hours.

This is in jungle terrain which, due to the challenging nature of traversing the jungle, allows PCs at a normal travel place to cover 10 miles per 8-hour day, or with a fast pace 20 miles.

According to the PHB:
[SECTION]Forced March. The Travel Pace table assumes that characters travel for 8 hours in day. They can push on beyond that limit, at the risk of Exhaustion.
For each additional hour of travel beyond 8 hours, the characters cover the distance shown in the Hour column for their pace, and each character must make a Constitution saving throw at the end of the hour.
The DC is 10 + 1 for each hour past 8 hours. On a failed saving throw, a character suffers one level of Exhaustion (see Conditions ).[/SECTION]

Would this be handled as a DC 22 Con save, and if you fail you suffer one level of exhaustion?

Or would it be more accurate to adapt those rules creatively...? For example, you make a DC 20 Con save, and every degree of 5 that you fail by you suffer a level of exhaustion, so 15-19 = one exhaustion level, 10-14 = two exhaustion levels, 5-9 = three exhaustion levels, 0-4 = four exhaustion levels.

I realize the core rules may not account for this sort of scenario exactly, but I'm curious to hear the perspectives of my fellow gamers.

At the end of the ninth hour, everyone must make a DC 11 CON save or take a level of exhaustion.

At the end of the tenth hour, everyone must make a DC 12 CON save or take a level of exhaustion.

...

At the end of the 19th hour, everyone must make a DC 21 CON save or take a level of exhaustion.

At the end of the 20th hour, everyone must make a DC 22 CON save or take a level of exhaustion.

Needless to say, your players are most likely not going to succeed. A player with a +0 or +1 CON save is almost guaranteed to fail 5 times and be reduces to a 0 speed before the 20th hour.

Is this march required somehow? Can you alter your plans to better fit the mechanics? If not, you'll need to devise a way to either bypass these mechanics temporarily, or change them fully for your game. I'd go the first route, and have them have access to some super-stimulant that only boosts long-term exertion at the cost of a automatic level of exhaustion and then a DC 15 CON save at the end to avoid a second level. A potion, or salve, or prayer at a shrine or something.

In general, though, it's usually better to not require marathon marches without giving the PC's a meaningful choice on how to tackle it -- usually methods to bypass it at different costs. Either go slower and not risk the exhaustion through forced march but have things deteriorate at the far end and be more challenging, or a bypass that has a cost but gets them there sooner.

 

[aco175]

Jungle is no joke. Back in jungle training school we went all night and only covered 1 mile. We were being tactical with no flashlights and such, but the hills and mud made it hard, never mind the thickness of the trees and brush.

I can see something where you can swap who is in front and trying not to fatigue him. There are still rivers and grass that grows above your head making direction hard and you need to relay on the compass. For PCs it may be hard without guides and locals that know the terrain. Maybe some lead in where they meet a local tribe and negotiate guides that come and show the shortcuts. Maybe the shortcut leads through the lair of X where the PCs can earn their stripes.

 

[iserith]

To keep it in line with the rules, I would suggest keeping the Travel Paces the same, but calling the treacherous jungle difficult terrain. This means 15 miles at a Fast pace, 12 miles at a Normal pace, 9 miles at a Slow pace. If they have a ranger with them whose favored terrain is Forest/Jungle, then they ignore the difficult terrain. This greatly argues for the hiring of an NPC hireling if the party does not have a ranger with the appropriate favored terrain in the party, which creates both a cost (to hire) and a risk (since they may have to work to keep the NPC alive).

Now comes the Activities While Traveling. With no clear path or road, someone's going to have to Navigate. That can be the hireling or another PC. I would then add to the Foraging task the ability to collect leaves you can chew to gain a powerful stimulant effect which allows forced marches without Constitution checks to some kind of upper limit. Like Navigating, Foraging means the PC(s) doing that task cannot keep watch for danger and is automatically surprised if any lurking jungle monster is indicated along the way, unless of course, that PC is a ranger in favored terrain in which case he or she can also keep watch while performing some other task.

Ultimately this becomes a choice between who to assign to what task, what pace at which to travel, whether and when to rest, being sure to collect enough leaves to avoid forced marches, while trying to protect the hireling and anyone else whose attention is diverted to Navigating and Foraging. That's a lot of meaningful choices! Some ability checks might be appropriate here, but I prefer to resolve overland travel stuff with passive checks. DCs go up the faster the pace (or become impossible, as appropriate).

 

[Quickleaf]

At the end of the ninth hour, everyone must make a DC 11 CON save or take a level of exhaustion.

At the end of the tenth hour, everyone must make a DC 12 CON save or take a level of exhaustion.

...

At the end of the 19th hour, everyone must make a DC 21 CON save or take a level of exhaustion.

At the end of the 20th hour, everyone must make a DC 22 CON save or take a level of exhaustion.

Needless to say, your players are most likely not going to succeed. A player with a +0 or +1 CON save is almost guaranteed to fail 5 times and be reduces to a 0 speed before the 20th hour.

Yeah, that method of requiring a save each hour just seemed too brutal. For example, I've walked about 26 miles (mostly flat terrain) in 8 hours with a couple breaks. And I was just reading about Karel Sabbe averaging 53 miles per day on the Appalachian Trail (with support), and that Joe McConaughy averaged 50 miles per day on the Appalachian Trail (without support). It wasn't jungle, but these guys were doing this for days on end!

Is this march required somehow? Can you alter your plans to better fit the mechanics? If not, you'll need to devise a way to either bypass these mechanics temporarily, or change them fully for your game. I'd go the first route, and have them have access to some super-stimulant that only boosts long-term exertion at the cost of a automatic level of exhaustion and then a DC 15 CON save at the end to avoid a second level. A potion, or salve, or prayer at a shrine or something.

In general, though, it's usually better to not require marathon marches without giving the PC's a meaningful choice on how to tackle it -- usually methods to bypass it at different costs. Either go slower and not risk the exhaustion through forced march but have things deteriorate at the far end and be more challenging, or a bypass that has a cost but gets them there sooner.

I'll put the specifics in spoilers cause one or two of my players are on ENWorld...

[SBLOCK]The march is not required, per se, but is something my players are likely to attempt to beat some flying monsters to a friendly settlement. Basically, there's a foreshadowed gargoyle attack coming for a "Rivendell" equivalent (Kir Sabal, in Tomb of Annihilation) which the PCs are planning to make a return trip pretty soon. The aarakocra at "Rivendell" know a ritual which can grant the PCs magical flight – hugely helpful for the exploration-heavy campaign – but they need to recover a black orchid first. The gargoyles are flying way high up, originating south of the PCs' current position, which is in turn south of "Rivendell"; therefor, they're going to witness a whole bunch of gargoyles flying high above and realize the gargoyles' destination. If the PCs want to be involved in the defense of "Rivendell", they'll need to try and match the gargoyles' pace with a forced march. At least the path they'd be taking roughly follows a river the PCs have already traveled along before, so they're familiar with the terrain.[/SBLOCK]

Obviously there are other approaches they might take – they might say "screw that, forget the ritual, let's mind our own business" or "let's try to distract a huge force of monsters which could very well kill us all" – but knowing my players this is a likely possibility. I don't make a habit of slamming them with exhaustion, and I've streamlined a lot of the logistics stuff in this campaign (Tomb of Annihilation) so they usually don't have to worry about dehydration/starvation, etc. However, on rare occasions, such as a dramatic forced march, I believe exhaustion can be an interesting element in the game.

Jungle is no joke. Back in jungle training school we went all night and only covered 1 mile. We were being tactical with no flashlights and such, but the hills and mud made it hard, never mind the thickness of the trees and brush.

I can see something where you can swap who is in front and trying not to fatigue him. There are still rivers and grass that grows above your head making direction hard and you need to relay on the compass. For PCs it may be hard without guides and locals that know the terrain. Maybe some lead in where they meet a local tribe and negotiate guides that come and show the shortcuts. Maybe the shortcut leads through the lair of X where the PCs can earn their stripes.

Yeah, I've hiked in jungles, done 20+ miles hikes, and run a couple marathons, but I have no real grasp of just how grueling such an endeavor would be.

In this instance, the PCs are the natives and they do have NPC henchmen very familiar with the jungle accompanying them.

 

[Quickleaf]

To keep it in line with the rules, I would suggest keeping the Travel Paces the same, but calling the treacherous jungle difficult terrain. This means 15 miles at a Fast pace, 12 miles at a Normal pace, 9 miles at a Slow pace. If they have a ranger with them whose favored terrain is Forest/Jungle, then they ignore the difficult terrain. This greatly argues for the hiring of an NPC hireling if the party does not have a ranger with the appropriate favored terrain in the party, which creates both a cost (to hire) and a risk (since they may have to work to keep the NPC alive).

This is for Tomb of Annihilation, and in that adventure the normal travel pace rules are altered a bit. Normal pace = 10 miles per day, corresponding with 10 miles hexes. In the adventure traveling at a Fast Pace allows you to cover 10 miles, and then you have a 50% chance of covering an additional 10 miles.

There is a ranger PC in the party with forest/jungle favored terrain. I've interpreted that as allowing the PCs to automatically cover 20 miles (i.e. no need for % roll) when traversing familiar areas of the jungle at Fast Pace.

That's already established stuff for our game, and changing it now would probably be unsatisfactory.

I'll think on the whole stimulant suggestion though. We have a grung PC who is all about "medicinal" plants.

Now comes the Activities While Traveling. With no clear path or road, someone's going to have to Navigate. That can be the hireling or another PC. I would then add to the Foraging task the ability to collect leaves you can chew to gain a powerful stimulant effect which allows forced marches without Constitution checks to some kind of upper limit. Like Navigating, Foraging means the PC(s) doing that task cannot keep watch for danger and is automatically surprised if any lurking jungle monster is indicated along the way, unless of course, that PC is a ranger in favored terrain in which case he or she can also keep watch while performing some other task.

Ultimately this becomes a choice between who to assign to what task, what pace at which to travel, whether and when to rest, being sure to collect enough leaves to avoid forced marches, while trying to protect the hireling and anyone else whose attention is diverted to Navigating and Foraging. That's a lot of meaningful choices! Some ability checks might be appropriate here, but I prefer to resolve overland travel stuff with passive checks. DCs go up the faster the pace (or become impossible, as appropriate).

That would be a great approach if the emphasis here were on exploration. But this is a dramatic "beat the monsters to a destination" moment (well, more like "match the monsters pace"). Sorry, should have made that clear in my OP. We've also done lots of random encounters recently – and I find that to avoid "random encounter fatigue" it's best to change it up with narrative/montage travel or skill challenges now and then. Finally, this is a bit of a backtrack for the PCs; while they haven't traversed this section of river/jungle specifically, they're looping back to a previous settlement to fulfill a quest.

In spoilers, I've included a rough map with the PCs' approximate route in cyan and the monsters' route in red. The PCs will very likely be returning to the circled settlement.

[SBLOCK]

[/SBLOCK]

 

[LordEntrails]

I'd go with the stimulant route, maybe even giving advantage on the checks and maybe a bonus for the guide? Though I think I would give a movement bonus for the guide, rather than a bonus on the check.

For multi-day travel, I setup a different forced march set of rules for an adventure I wrote for the Guild. Not really the situation you are in, but here they are if they help at all.

It is likely that the party will be travelling a great deal in a short time period with limited chances for both short and long rests. The first opportunity for a long rest is probably not until the night of day 4 (either after reaching Melion or if trapped in Palisade).
The following rules should be used to deter-mine the effects of multi-day travel with limited rests.
Characters can travel an equivalent distance of 8 hours of fast paced travel (typically 32 miles) without needing a long rest before risking exhaustion. Each short rest restores an equivalent distance of 1 hour of fast paced travel (typically 4 miles) before again risking exhaustion.

For each hour of at risk travel, the character must make a Constitution save with a DC 10 + 1 for each hour of at risk travel plus an additional 1 for each 12 hour block of time over 36 hours since the character last completed a long rest. A failed save results in the character gaining 1 level of exhaustion.

At-Risk Travel DC *
1 hour 11 + 1 per Block**
2 12 + 1 per Block**
3 13 + 1 per Block**
5 15 + 1 per Block**
8 18 + 1 per Block**
10 20 + 1 per Block**
* Assuming no short rests
** Where a Block is 12 hours without a long rest after 36 hours or more since a long rest

For example, assume a character in the time-line as outlined above last completed a long rest on the morning of day minus one (because the long rest is interrupted at time = 0). If this character leaves Palisade at noon on day 3, they have traveled about 27 miles since their last long rest. If they have not taken any short rests since their travel has begun, once they travel 5 more miles, their travel is now at risk of resulting in exhaustion. The first hour of at risk travel that this character travels, the constitution saving throw they must make is a DC 19. (DC 10 + 0 + 9 since it has been 9 twelve-hour blocks since they last had a long rest. If they then take a short rest, they can again travel for one hour before again risking exhausting travel. If they do not take a short rest, they continue to travel at risk of exhausting travel, but now the DC is 20 (10 + 1+ 9).

 

[guachi]

Idea: have the players burn a HD to relieve a level of exhaustion while marching.

 

[S'mon]

It seems like this would normally be impossible. 10 miles/day through jungle - either it's a cleared path or mature rain forest, both in fairly level terrain; a lot of IRL jungle is close to impassable. 50 miles seems right out.

I think if you want to make it challenging but possible you need to set the DCs appropriately. It doesn't seem like something that would happen IMC; the PCs would need a carpet of flying or similar to get there in time.

 

[TallIan]

snip...
Would this be handled as a DC 22 Con save, and if you fail you suffer one level of exhaustion?

Or would it be more accurate to adapt those rules creatively...? For example, you make a DC 20 Con save, and every degree of 5 that you fail by you suffer a level of exhaustion, so 15-19 = one exhaustion level, 10-14 = two exhaustion levels, 5-9 = three exhaustion levels, 0-4 = four exhaustion levels.

I realize the core rules may not account for this sort of scenario exactly, but I'm curious to hear the perspectives of my fellow gamers.

I think this approach could ruin people's day because of a single bad die roll, even the party barbarian can roll a one and find himself nearly useless in combat, and just having them roll 12 CON saves won't be much fun either - that's almost a big enough number of rolls to just calculate it.

You could also look at costing HPs instead of exhaustion. Getting through any kind of heavy plant growth is likely to leave you with cuts, from thorns and small branches, and bruises, from larger branches, trips and falls. eg failing the CON save costs 2d6 HP but failing by 5 or more is a level of exhaustion. This significantly changes the difficulty but still leaves a cost.

I think this sort of situation is best handled with less adherence to RAW. I also think that your scenario is a little too binary, they either make the impossible roll or the villagers die, so perhaps set up four levels of success:
A - they keep up with the antagonists: Either through luck, or creative expenditure of resources and save all the villagers
B - the antagonists get the drop on the party: Just because the bad guys got their fist doesn't mean everyone is dead. The village has been attacked but the villagers are pulling together some form of defense and the party arriving tips the battle in their favour. The village is saved but at a cost.
C - The antagonist beat them to the chase: The party arrives too late to do anything but save a few fleeing villagers
D - Too late: the attack is done and the party can't do anything but exact revenge.

Handle it more like a skill challenge, with the number of failures dictating when the party arrives.

Or just have the party make up to four CON saves, if they only take one (pass of fail) they get scenario D, if they take two saves, they get scenario C... This gives them some control of when they arrive and in what condition, "Well half of us failed that first save, and two failed the second one, we'll just have to slow down and hope for best." as opposed to "Well half of us failed that first save, and two failed the second one, we just gotta keep rolling."

EDIT: some grammar and spelling