FR Update at WotC-Year of the Ageless One

[glass]

They make sweeping changes to the setting but then avoided impacting the more popular locations? Who knew the Spellplague was capable of such discriminating destruction. Sad.

Did we read the same article? If by 'not impacted' you mean 'still there' then that is true in the case of Cormyr and Waterdeep (Thay, not so much!).


glass.

 

[Sitara]

They shoulld have had a meteor strike Faerun, completely obliterating everything and ushering in a new ice age.

Whats more they would leave it compeltely open for individual gm's to figure out the cause of the metoer; maybe it was a yuan-ti ritual, maybe a backfired spell from thay, maybe netherese were behind it, maybe it was mystara's counterattack, etc etc


Talk about your points of light eh?

 

[delericho]

If you protest emptily before WOTC diktats and still keep buying their stuff, why the hell should they change their lines ? Their only weak point is their wallet, so roll a crit againt it !

Their wallet has about a million hit points, and we have daggers. This may take a while.

 

[JohnRTroy]

I think a reboot will probably be what's next for the Forgotten Realms. This seems to solve few of the complaints that people had with the setting. One complaint was that the Forgotten Realms had too much obscure backstory to get through. How does this solve things? Sure, you might know as much as the grognard about the new setting because so much has changed, but this just adds more ruins for extinct civilizations to figure out the backstory for.

The uber-NPC's that people didn't like (namely Drizzt and Elminster) are still around, plus given the massive changes that have happened in the 3e forgotten realms novels, the PC's still seem to have bit parts. If the novels can take away or change such foundational things as Myth Drannor, the PC's are always going to be second rate heroes.

So I would say that perhaps rebooting would solve these problems. I don't mean changing it back to the original box set (which would only please the very hardcore) but rewrite the setting so that it synthesizes the old and new and thus simplifies the backstory and makes it fresh.

A Reboot would more likely fail. Despite people's "bitching" about Elminster and Drizzt, those two characters are critical to the market--Elminster is the soul of the realms, having been it's "narrator" in a lot of the older product and considered the main character of its creator, Drizzt is now a classic fantasy character in the mold of Conan and Elric, thanks to Salvatore's novels. They may be considered "Mary Sueish" (a term I really hate), "Overpowered", etc, but they are successful. They have been reducing other NPCs power and I think that will satisfy some people.

Keep in mind a total reboot would upset not just the gamers but the novel readers, and since both are tied in together, I doubt they'd do anything to upset the novels--remember, Dragonlance ended up becoming a novel-only line at one point. In my opinion, they are likely to turn this campaign setting into a fiction line and cancel the RPG line if push came to shove.

A reboot would only really work if the property was dormant for years or even decades--like BSG or He-Man. Otherwise, memories would be too new. Most people want the familiar, not the new.

Sorry, hardcore FR fans, but you've been fired. The truth is: FR as it stands has been driving people away (due to complexity and bloat) much faster than it has been attracting new players. Pretty much the only FR fans left are the hardcore fans. Left as it is, interest in FR will just dwindle away.

Do you have sales figures or the information on whether or not sales have dipped? Could it be that the supplements were re-written to new formats people didn't like? Considering how popular the novels are, I don't think this is the case. I think more or less they are trying to make the changes serve their purpose while making it as palatable as possible. I'm sick of people dismissing hard-core fans of anything by implying they are losers or nutjobs. If it wasn't for their passion, FR would die.

I have not been a huge FR fan. As such, the 4e changes to the Realms presented the opportunity to let me reconsider the setting. I like what I've read of the changes in the Realms circa 4e but a number of the changes seem to affect only out of the way places while leaving the "core" Realms (Sword Coast, Dales, Cormyr) largely intact. Thus, it looks like the "core" stays pretty much the same but that the changes to the outer ring of areas give the core areas something new to deal with on their periphery. This is, I think, probably a "safe" strategy but hardly an inspiring one.

Well, the goal was not to complete reboot or change FR, but to bring it in line with the 4th Edition and make it feel fresh for that game.

The suggestions I see people making sort of boggle me. It would be like rewriting Peanuts to make Charlie Brown a cool suave winner and make snoopy a "real dog" without thought balloons. It would be like making Spider-Man a female super-villain.

If you're not a fan of what exists, why would you waste time wanting to play a setting that is completely different yet uses the same name/trademark?

At it's core, Forgotten Realms has a style and certain expectations. Of course they are going to keep the fans interested--if they wanted something completely new they'd just create a new setting! We should expect to see elements like Cormyr and Waterdeep and Myth Drannor, Elminster and Drizzt, Balder's Gate and Neverwinter. We can also expect new things to be put down, new rules of magic to fit the classes, new empires and states for the new races, etc. It's pretty much a compromise.

I'm on board because I don't see a lot of major disrespect, Ed Greenwood is still involved, etc. It looks like they've done the best compromise they could.

 

[Teemu]

The rationale for the Dragonborn turning up is as lazy and shoehorned as you'd expect. Still, any change so rules-driven rather than setting-driven is going to be difficult to explain elegantly.

Do you know how elves got into Toril?

Dwarves?

Mulan humans?

Orcs?

 

[Twiggly the Gnome]

IMO, the Sword Coast needed to change, and the Dalelands and Cormyr if 4e FR was not to be just 1-3X FR with a cosmetic change. "Its Malibu Stacy! And she's got a new hat!" Well, okay, but only existing Malibu Stacy fans will be excited/outraged that the same old doll has a new hat. Or would that be old hat?

Yeah, I'm not sure where the outrage or the excitement for these changes is coming from. From my perspective, this stuff is pretty much on the level of Elminster switching to cherry pipeweed. :\

 

[EATherrian]

I've always liked the Realms and these changes seem interesting. There are some questions though. I've always wondered why a city as powerful as Waterdeep never tried to expand its influence inland at all, become a true city-state or the seed of a new kingdom? How did Cormyr expand so much when last we saw it, there was danger on all sides? I'm assuming some bad things happened to Sembia. I will miss Mulhorand if that does disappear. Real-world analog or not, I always thought it had a great back story, and will miss it if it goes. All in all, I think the changes are interesting and can't wait to read a more in-depth chronology of that missing century.

Bill

 

[Sitara]

Wowo I posted two fantastic ideas on where to take the realms and no one noticed??

 

[delericho]

A Reboot would more likely fail. Despite people's "bitching" about Elminster and Drizzt, those two characters are critical to the market--Elminster is the soul of the realms, having been it's "narrator" in a lot of the older product and considered the main character of its creator, Drizzt is now a classic fantasy character in the mold of Conan and Elric, thanks to Salvatore's novels.

Any reboot would absolutely have to include these two characters, and also key locations such as Waterdeep, Baldur's Gate, Myth Drannor and the Underdark.

A reboot would only really work if the property was dormant for years or even decades--like BSG or He-Man. Otherwise, memories would be too new. Most people want the familiar, not the new.

Agreed.

However, I'm far from convinced that the changes being done don't have all the negative effects of a reboot, and none of the advantages. Time will tell on that one.

 

[Faraer]

Here's the big 'don't know' about Rich's article: To what extent does it read like a PR release or a movie pitch because that's what it is, and to what extent is that kind of top-down, garish, ego-first, nuance-be-damned thinking actually how the new Realms has been conceived and is being done?

Of course, another question is which are the parts Ed's working on? Tymanther, maybe? If so, how easily will we be able to use it as a gate-linked other world rather than as part of Realms 2008?

This article supports the coherent picture that the new setting is built with very different design principles from the Realms I know. Ed's worldbuilding philosophy and writing/DMing sensibility, to me, is the Realms; not the proper names of people and places. No wonder there's concern, then, from people who like it.

Evil seems to be being made considerably more monolithic than it used to be - The Shades Did It All.

It seems an extension of the exposure and prominence the Shadevar got in the 3E period at the expense of subtler groups not made up by the Wizards authors, from the Malaugrym to the Twisted Rune.

This thing is reminding me of Dragonlance 5th Age.... and we all know how that went over.

The crucial difference is that there weren't hundreds of large cardboard boxes of unpublished Age of Despair lore, and scores of characters with intriguing hinted stories, that we may now never see.

Baldur's Gate is without a doubt the most famous Realms city to non-Realms players, due to the video games.

Its not surprising they decided to make it a bigger focus of the 4E Realms.

It wouldn't be surprising if Wizards had capitalized on the success of the Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights games with any competence.

It is something of a post-apocalyptic fantasy setting, which might be fun. I am tempted to pick up the FRCS now.

I'd have a look at Ed Greenwood's Castlemourn, then, too.

Cloak & Dagger had alot of good info and they just kind of glossed over/ff'ed it all for 3E.

There's a long record of new authors and managers coming along and putting their mark on the Realms with poor care for what's come before.