Full strength bonus on both weapons in two weapon fighting

[med stud]

What would the imbalances be? IMO it wouldnt be too bad but I suspect I have missed something.

 

[milo]

I don't think that this imbalances the power too much to not allow a feat for it. The prereqs could be power attack, twf, and weapon focus in the weapons. If you wanted to restrict the feat even more make another prereq of weapon specialization. This gives the feat somewhat high requirement to pick it up 13 str, 15 dex, 4 feats and at least a 4th level fighter.

 

[Bront]

It encourages 2 weapon fighting unless you make it a feat, at which point it isn't that big of a deal.

If you don't make it a feat, it adds advantages to two weapon fighting (+2x str, 1 on each side) vs two handed fighting (+1.5).

Is it unbalancing? slightly. Will it kill your game? probably not. Does it change the dynamics? Enough to make a player think.

If you want to make a flat ruling on it, I would suggest that you allow for the 1x in the off hand apply only to non-light weapons. Basicly, if you can power attack with it, you can use the full strength bonus.

Here's the feats I would create that fills a nich with this and other things.

Light Power Attack [GENERAL]
Prerequisites: Power Attack, Str 15, BAB +4
Benefit: You may use power attack with a light weapon and gain half of the benifit. This bonus may not excede your current strength modifier.
Normal: Without this feat, you can not gain any benifit from power attacking with a light weapon.
Special: A fighter may select Light Power Attack as one of his fighter bonus feats.

Two Weapon Power Attack [GENERAL]
Prerequisites: Light Power Attack, Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Benefit: You may use your full strengh modifier for your off handed weapon damage when two-weapon fighting.
Normal: Without this feat, You may use only half your strengh modifier for your off handed weapon damage when two-weapon fighting.
Special: A fighter may select Two Weapon Power Attack as one of his fighter bonus feats.

I think those balance out fairly well, require some skill to get into (IE, no 1st level characters doing this), but are usefull enough that a character who wants to go this route may do so.

If you don't like Light Power Attack, simply drop itm and make sure that Strength 15+ is a req for Two Weapon Power Attack.

I couldn't think of a better name for the Two weapon feat. Seemed to fit.

 

[med stud]

It encourages 2 weapon fighting unless you make it a feat, at which point it isn't that big of a deal.

If you don't make it a feat, it adds advantages to two weapon fighting (+2x str, 1 on each side) vs two handed fighting (+1.5).

Is it unbalancing? slightly. Will it kill your game? probably not. Does it change the dynamics? Enough to make a player think.

If you want to make a flat ruling on it, I would suggest that you allow for the 1x in the off hand apply only to non-light weapons. Basicly, if you can power attack with it, you can use the full strength bonus.

Here's the feats I would create that fills a nich with this and other things.



I think those balance out fairly well, require some skill to get into (IE, no 1st level characters doing this), but are usefull enough that a character who wants to go this route may do so.

If you don't like Light Power Attack, simply drop itm and make sure that Strength 15+ is a req for Two Weapon Power Attack.

I couldn't think of a better name for the Two weapon feat. Seemed to fit.

Well its true that you get x2 Str total but OTOH your damage output is lowered by 10 % due to the -2/-2 and you lose out on all situations where you only have one attack compared to the twohanded weapon wielders. Add to this that you have to take 3 feats during your characters career and that you have to have high Dex is the reason why Im thinking this over. Doing some basic number-crunching I concluded that two weapon wielders do more damage than twohanded weapon wielders on full attacks but that they lose out on single attacks and due to the fact that they will have to have two magical weapons instead of one.

 

[KarinsDad]

Well its true that you get x2 Str total but OTOH your damage output is lowered by 10 % due to the -2/-2 and you lose out on all situations where you only have one attack compared to the twohanded weapon wielders. Add to this that you have to take 3 feats during your characters career and that you have to have high Dex is the reason why Im thinking this over. Doing some basic number-crunching I concluded that two weapon wielders do more damage than twohanded weapon wielders on full attacks but that they lose out on single attacks and due to the fact that they will have to have two magical weapons instead of one.

Don't listen to these other posters. They didn't crunch any numbers. This is not unbalancing, in fact it's not balancing enough. It balances out two weapon fighters with two handed weapon fighters only slightly.


18 Str Fighter, Weapon Specialization: +2 D8 Longsword and Shield
18 Str Fighter, Weapon Specialization: +2 D8 Longsword and +2 D6 Shortsword
18 Str Fighter, Weapon Specialization: +2 2D6 Greatsword

To hit chance 50%, 6th level Fighter (i.e. two attacks per round), since all weapons are 19-20/x2, I didn't bother to calculate criticals since the damage ratio does not change:

Normal Single Attack:

Longsword and Shield: 6.25 (12.5 * 50%)
Longsword and Shortsword: 6.25 (12.5 * 50%)
Greatsword: 8.5 (17 * 50%)


Normal Full Round Attack:

Longsword and Shield: 9.375 (12.5 * 50% + 12.5 * 25%)
Longsword and Shortsword: 9.875 (12.5 * 40% + 12.5 * 15% + 7.5 * 40%)
Greatsword: 12.75 (17 * 50% + 17 * 25%)


Revised Full Round Attack:

Longsword and Shortsword: 10.675 (12.5 * 40% + 12.5 * 15% + 9.5 * 40%)


The two weapon combo does not even do more damage in a full round attack compared with the two handed weapon unless you need to roll a 20 to hit. Even if you take an extra feat and use a Bastard sword in your primary hand and you use your house rule, the Greatsword still does more damage per round.


If you really want to balance out two handed weapon fighting with two weapon fighting, get rid of the -2/-2 penalty AND allow for normal strength on the off hand weapon (or, just get rid of the -2/-2 penalty with the TWF feat and keep strength as is, or make the penalty -5/-5).

Longsword and Shortsword: 11.500 (12.5 * 45% + 12.5 * 20% + 7.5 * 45%)
Longsword and Shortsword: 12.400 (12.5 * 45% + 12.5 * 20% + 9.5 * 45%)
Longsword and Shortsword: 13.125 (12.5 * 50% + 12.5 * 25% + 7.5 * 50%)
Longsword and Shortsword: 14.125 (12.5 * 50% + 12.5 * 25% + 9.5 * 50%)

In the case of getting rid of the -2/-2 penalty (regardless of whether you maintain original strength for the offhand weapon or not), the two weapon combo does slightly more damage in full round attack situations, the two handed weapon does slightly more damage in single round attack situations (except in the case of Power Attack when the two handed weapon STILL does more damage in both situations).

Remember, no matter what you do (out of the ones above), the two handed weapon will always average more overall damage because it does significantly more damage in Attack of Opportunity situations as well.

 

[Brother MacLaren]

The are numerous effects that give a flat bonus to damage not dependent on light/one-handed/2-handed. These effects will benefit the TWF more than the THF:
Specialization and Greater Specialization
Morale bonuses, such as the Inspire Courage ability (very common - every fight for my party, and could be +4 at 6th level with the right feat, spell, and instrument)
Luck bonuses, such as Divine Favor (caster only) or Prayer
Enhancement bonuses
Various class abilities (Dervish, Swashbuckler)
Sneak Attack and similar abilities (not Skirmish, unless combined with Dervish Dance)

 

[Hangmann]

If you simply wanted to say your off hand has the same strength modifier, then two handed weapons should get double, instead of 1.5, the extra .5 comes from yer off hand. If you wanted to make it a feat, then don't make it TWF specific, as a THF fighter could benefit just as much.

 

[Mjollnir]

Feat is already created in "Torn Asunder" by Bastion Press (page 69):
Strong Off-Hand Attack (General)
Prerrequisites: Str 15+, Dex !5+, Power Attack

 

[dungeon blaster]

Does this mean that monsters will do full damage with their secondary attacks? I don't see why they shouldn't be able to. Or make it a monster feat.

 

[Bront]

Does this mean that monsters will do full damage with their secondary attacks? I don't see why they shouldn't be able to. Or make it a monster feat.

Natural attacks work differently, and generaly get the full STR bonus always.

At least as far as I know