GAME OF THRONES SEASON 8--Final Run-- Part 6---THE END

Ralif Redhammer

Adventurer
"if nothing else, the readers will learn what happened to Jeyne Poole, Lady Stoneheart, Penny and her pig, Skahaz Shavepate, Arianne Martell, Darkstar, Victarion Greyjoy, Ser Garlan the Gallant, Aegon VI"

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Okay, some of them I do remember, but still, I can't say I'm burning up at the thought of learning their fates.

"How about this? I’ll write it. You read it. Then everyone can make up their own mind, and argue about it on the internet."

Sure, but first you have to write it...

George has written an update regarding the last episode:
http://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2019/05/20/an-ending/
 

lowkey13

I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.
George has written an update regarding the last episode:

http://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2019/05/20/an-ending/

Winter is coming, I told you, long ago… and so it is. THE WINDS OF WINTER is very late, I know, I know, but it will be done.
Lies. You have no pages.



I won’t say when, I’ve tried that before, only to burn you all and jinx myself… but I will finish it, and then will come A DREAM OF SPRING.
The definition of chutzpah is to announce a book sequel when your can't even write pages for the book in order to write the sequel.


I REFUSE TO BE THE CHARLIE BROWN TO YOUR LUCY!



....

How about this? I’ll write it. You read it. Then everyone can make up their own mind, and argue about it on the internet.

Well, someone has to kick that football. Might as well be me!
 

jonesy

A Wicked Kendragon
So what you're saying is that the dothraki and unsullied had to retreat, because ghost-Snow took out overlord Dany which caused their side to become supply blocked?
 

Derren

Adventurer
One of the most successful monarchies of all time had a 7 elector system.

It also makes sense in Westeros, how they executed it and who they elected is another matter.
Calling the Holy Roman Empire successful is stretching it quite a bit. Not to mention that it was very unstable, so exactly what they tried to prevent with going for an elective system.
 

MarkB

Hero
You seem to forget one of GRRM's stated purposes in writing the series - to teach genre fans lessons about how things don't work out the way they want them, to specifically defy your narrative expectations.
And these days people have genre expectations based upon tropes established in Game of Thrones. I wonder whether he considers that a success or an irony. Did he break the wheel, or merely forge some new spokes?
 

Zardnaar

Hero
Calling the Holy Roman Empire successful is stretching it quite a bit. Not to mention that it was very unstable, so exactly what they tried to prevent with going for an elective system.
It lasted a very long time and it's not like anything else is that stable either. In their world it makes sense no point gambling on over throwing a dynasty when you can get elected. In theory it would keep the blood bath down.
 

Derren

Adventurer
It lasted a very long time and it's not like anything else is that stable either. In their world it makes sense no point gambling on over throwing a dynasty when you can get elected. In theory it would keep the blood bath down.
And yet there was constant internal strife and wars with the emperor too weak to prevent it.
 

Zardnaar

Hero
A lot if that was due to the reformation, which caused problems elsewhere with different government systems.
Every government system seems to have problems, Democracy hasn't been around that long either and has issues.
Seems to be more of a human thing.
 

Derren

Adventurer
A lot if that was due to the reformation, which caused problems elsewhere with different government systems.
Every government system seems to have problems, Democracy hasn't been around that long either and has issues.
Seems to be more of a human thing.
Not really. There were a lot of wars between the individual princes even before the reformation.
 

Zardnaar

Hero
There's lots of wars anytime I don't think government forms mitigate that. Might be getting a bit close to the no politic thing thing though.

Humans are good at being cruel to each other.
 

Derren

Adventurer
There's lots of wars anytime I don't think government forms mitigate that. Might be getting a bit close to the no politic thing thing though.

Humans are good at being cruel to each other.
Yes, but internal wars are something different.
France with its centralism never had that much of internal strife as the HRE had. And as the goal of the kingdoms in GoT was to prevent further conflicts between the houses, choosing an elective succession is the worst possible idea as the HRE shows.
 

Zardnaar

Hero
Yes, but internal wars are something different.
France with its centralism never had that much of internal strife as the HRE had. And as the goal of the kingdoms in GoT was to prevent further conflicts between the houses, choosing an elective succession is the worst possible idea as the HRE shows.
HRE had lots if religious strife and different cultures. Westeros only really has one plus Dorne. The 7 is also the default faith for most of Westeros with a little old God's in the north.

France had big problems with the reformation and the decentralized nobles.
 

Derren

Adventurer
HRE had lots if religious strife and different cultures. Westeros only really has one plus Dorne. The 7 is also the default faith for most of Westeros with a little old God's in the north.

France had big problems with the reformation and the decentralized nobles.
Again, you ignore all the wars inside the HRE before the reformation and there were a lot of them. Without a strong emperor, and the electors did the best to elect someone weak, the princes inside the HRE could do as they please, including waging war against each other, which they did often because of matters of territory or succession. Religion only later became just another reason to wage war but was hardly the only one.
 

Zardnaar

Hero
Again, you ignore all the wars inside the HRE before the reformation and there were a lot of them. Without a strong emperor, and the electors did the best to elect someone weak, the princes inside the HRE could do as they please, including waging war against each other, which they did often because of matters of territory or succession. Religion only later became just another reason to wage war but was hardly the only one.
I'm not ignoring it up there were other wars elsewhere . Look at the 20th century with entirely different forms of government. Or the War if the Roses which GoT is based on. You're going to have wars regardless.
 

Derren

Adventurer
I'm not ignoring it up there were other wars elsewhere . Look at the 20th century with entirely different forms of government. Or the War if the Roses which GoT is based on. You're going to have wars regardless.
Okay, I give up. You are obviously not able to see a difference between the many internal wars inside the HRE, including before the reformation, and the, compared to that, rather peaceful live in France (at least as internal wars are concerned) and how an elective government system which lead to an nearly impotent emperor who was unable to check the power of his subjects played into that.
 

Zardnaar

Hero
Can you give me a timeframe? France was not unified at one point and they had the hugenots and that crusade I'll have to look up. Are you meaning France between the Hundred Years War and reformation or post 30 Years War?

Westeros also lacks a lot of things causing that conflict. War of the 5 Kings was political for the most part.
 
And these days people have genre expectations based upon tropes established in Game of Thrones. I wonder whether he considers that a success or an irony. Did he break the wheel, or merely forge some new spokes?
Maybe he broke the "childhood wheel" and forged "adolescent spokes." But yeah, it is a new wheel of sorts. I think this is true of "grimdark" (and GRRMdark) stuff in general: it isn't as edgy or rebellious as it thinks it is, or perhaps as it once was when it was rebellious against "father conventions."
 

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