Games with "terrible" follow-up editions

[jdrakeh]

I hadn't paid enough attention to notice there was no official 6th, but still.

Looks like there was an unofficial 6th edition from Outlaw Press but then their license got pulled.

There was no formal license. There was, at one time, an informal handshake agreement of some sort, but the former owner of Outlaw Press was, as the creators of T&T have elucidated many times, just a plain, old-fashioned, IP thief. He overstepped the boundaries of the handshake agreement and published a TON of unauthorized content. He was also an attorney, which he used to his advantage when publishing unauthorized T&T products. Outlaw Press itself was a one-man fraud factory.

 

[TheAlkaizer]

I got into Vampire the Masquerade during the last two years. I know the new edition (called V5) has been pretty controversial. Partially for some mechanical decisions, but mostly for some updates to its lore. It made me really hesitant because unlike the most recent Shadowrun editions that seemed to be almost universally reviled, the Vampire community seemed to be split in half; wherever I looked, half were saying the new rules were much better (even though not perfect) and half were saying it was not true to the franchise's name.

What's interesting is that I have no idea what the truth is, but as a newcomer, it's V5 has been much easier to get into than the dozen of sourcebooks from the last twenty five years. The graphic design and layout are also quite horrendous in the older edition but it hurts my eyes to go through the books. Without even playing V5, I'm seeing potential issues with it, but nothing out of the ordinary when compared to most TTRPGs on my shelves.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I'm gonna go with Everway here. The original boxed set was a really innovative, beautiful, thing. The world wasn't ready for it and it had some rough edges, but it's overall an amazing product, IMO. Recently, a new edition was published. It is both extremely expensive and, as far as I can tell, doesn't improve on the original (still widely available) game in any appreciable way. I don't know that I'd call it "terrible" but it seems to be perfunctory, at best.

I’ve heard about it, but personally haven’t seen the new edition.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Outlaw Press itself was a one-man fraud factory.

When someone tells you who they are, listen.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I personally didn’t like the way Mutants & Masterminds went after 2Ed, but it wasn’t so annoying that I hated it. I simply didn’t buy any of it.

But when HERO (my favorite system) released something called the “Fuzion” edition? It was produced in partnership with R. Talsorian Games.

I felt betrayed. I was wondering why it existed and if I’d ever purchase another product. Fortunately, it was short lived, at least, as a “Champions” product line. I think there were a pair of supplements, and that was it. I can’t remember what I bought in the line, and I’m not sure I still own it. As I understand it, there’s a few games out there that use the Fuzion system.

 

[Stormonu]

oWoD vs. nWoD certainly has been a big source of controversy (around here, at least). It wasn't a case of mechanics, but the change to lore had a lot of long-time fans furious enough to quit (especially the Changling fans). I've played both, and I think that I pre-ordered the 20th anniversary edition speaks to where my heart lies on that subject.

L5R has also been a personal rollercoaster. I backed off during the d20 days, and though I've bought the latest version I haven't played since the 4E version. I was so glad when they rolled the default storyline back to the pre-Scorpion Coup times, though.

And, because of changing times, the ol' Twilight 2000 ended up with a couple versions that fell flat. Newest one has me excited ... just gotta find a few players.

<editted: it was the 20th year, not the 25th of VtM).

 

[Jahydin]

I hear this comment a lot. And what exactly is Warcraft-like about 4e? It's a grid-based, turn-based, strategy game. It has abilities on cooldowns of 5 minutes and 8 hours, respectively, where Warcraft abilities are generally refreshed in seconds. I don't see playable Trolls anywhere. You roll dice, which Warcraft does not.

I mean, structuring the entire "engine" around cooldown abilities with outrageous, flashy effects like an MMO is enough to warrant a comparison on its own.

Throw in other things, like the foundation of PCs and Monsters based around MMO "combat roles" (Controller, Leader, Defender, Striker), and there is a reason the comparison pops up in just about every 4e discussion.

Also, a personal observation of mine, the entire game seems built from the ground up with programing logic in mind, which I think leads to a "video game" type of feel as well.

 

[Jahydin]

Me, I liked 4E as a minis wargame... but it felt very much like Melee+Wizard: not quite enough there to be a full RPG, but clearly a minis game for use in an RPG system.

I think WotC kind of realized this too. I used to DM for their D&D Encounters (back when you got free stuff!) and I remember the adventures being setup as a wargame (one giant battle a night) with a good story attached.

 

[Grendel_Khan]

I got into Vampire the Masquerade during the last two years. I know the new edition (called V5) has been pretty controversial. Partially for some mechanical decisions, but mostly for some updates to its lore. It made me really hesitant because unlike the most recent Shadowrun editions that seemed to be almost universally reviled, the Vampire community seemed to be split in half; wherever I looked, half were saying the new rules were much better (even though not perfect) and half were saying it was not true to the franchise's name.

What's interesting is that I have no idea what the truth is, but as a newcomer, it's V5 has been much easier to get into than the dozen of sourcebooks from the last twenty five years. The graphic design and layout are also quite horrendous in the older edition but it hurts my eyes to go through the books. Without even playing V5, I'm seeing potential issues with it, but nothing out of the ordinary when compared to most TTRPGs on my shelves.

As someone who played a ton of Vampire when it first came out, I think V5 is amazing. There are a lot of gripes about its layout being hard to navigate (when you’re looking for specific rules) but honestly, who cares, when the hunger mechanic is so great, and the way the setting has been streamlined is so smart. That’s a world class game, and a perfect reboot.

 

[eyeheartawk]

I personally didn’t like the way Mutants & Masterminds went after 2Ed, but it wasn’t so annoying that I hated it. I simply didn’t buy any of it.

But when HERO (my favorite system) released something called the “Fuzion” edition? It was produced in partnership with R. Talsorian Games.

I felt betrayed. I was wondering why it existed and if I’d ever purchase another product. Fortunately, it was short lived, at least, as a “Champions” product line. I think there were a pair of supplements, and that was it. I can’t remember what I bought in the line, and I’m not sure I still own it. As I understand it, there’s a few games out there that use the Fuzion system.

It was really wild, in retrospect. Hey HERO gamers you know how you love Cyberpunk 2020? Hey, Cyberpunk 2020 gamers you know how you love HERO? It's like they wanted to combine peanut butter and chocolate and instead combined fish and cheese.

L5R has also been a personal rollercoaster. I backed off during the d20 days, and though I've bought the latest version I haven't played since the 4E version. I was so glad when they rolled the default storyline back to the pre-Scorpion Coup times, though.

It got really stupid. Turns out tying the advance of the metaplot to what clan deck won at a card tournament is, I don't know, not the best idea for a cohesive setting?

7th Sea 2E pretty much killed any further interest in playing 7th Sea at all, whether 1E or 2E, among my prior gaming group in Austria. I backed it for access to the entire catalogue of 1E pdfs, but the 2E books have basically been gathering dust.

I could make a whole thread just about how much I hate every single thing about 2e (except the wound wheel, I actually like that).