Geek Confessional Thread 2024

[payn]

Well, it was a good thread while it lasted.

 

[Umbran]

I won't re-write my entire gigantic Nostradamian screed here (I wrote about this at some length a year or three ago), but I would suggest had D&D never existed, it's quite likely 2-3 other RPGs would basically occupy the same space, and I suspect that RPGs overall might well be in a better, if more complicated place.

The problem with Nostradamian screeds is that they, like Nostradamus, are non-falsifiable.

The word "better" is doing so much heavy lifting there, with so many assumptions....

 

[Umbran]

Well, it was a good thread while it lasted.

Mod Note:
Payn, you haven't done anything wrong. Your post is merely a really good place to spring off of...

Folks, there is going to be disagreement in such a thread. If your basic approach to dealing with disagreement is sarcasm and snark, this thread will quickly be useful to nobody. So, please reconsider its use in this context. Thanks.

 

[overgeeked]

5E player wave - I think most of them are really cool, and people just hate on them because they're kids and they've forgotten what young people are like

That's not the issue in my case at least. My kid was 11 when 5E dropped and we played regularly. The extended family has lots of younger kids and my kid had a lot of friends, so I know how kids are and I vividly remember what it was like being a kid myself. My issue isn't that they're new to the hobby or young.

but there is a certain kind of aggressively nerdy type common among them who is pretty obnoxious in their total contempt for all other RPGs (including all other editions of D&D), and their studied inability to comprehend that 5E might have any mechanics that could be improved. 2024 5E definitely vexed these guys though, they don't know how to handle it!

That's my issue with the new wave of players. This describes the overwhelmingly vast majority of my experience with new to RPGs with 5E players. This weird kind of pretentious elitism from people new to the hobby with absolutely zero knowledge of its history or the breadth of options. D&D hipsters or something.

Gatekeeping vs bigots - Gatekeeping can keep out bigots, but it's also historically (including recently) by used by bigots to attempt to keep out women, minorities, LGBT+ people, young people, old people, and so on. I do think people who say "all gatekeeping is always bad" are being mindless, and especially those who get upset when gatekeeping is used to exclude bigots - I got into an argument with some pathetic twits elsewhere because I said I was happy to gatekeep fascists out of 40K, and they tried to pull "all gatekeeping is bad", but let's be real, gatekeeping should be judged on who is being gatekept, and for what reasons. You still routinely see people trying to gatekeep women and minorities in nerd spaces to this very day. So we don't have to pick a lane, we just have to look at specific situations.

Yes, there's far more nuance than my snippy comment suggests. But if we want to keep the bigots out (which I absolutely do want), then we have to accept some gatekeeping. As you say, we have to keep out the bigots so they don't push out everyone who isn't a straight white cis-het man. Gatekeeping to keep the bigots out, good. Gatekeeping to keep anyone else out, bad. But that's still gatekeeping.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

A mere sampling of my personal geek sins:

1) I have a reaction somewhere between boredom and loathing to most webcomics. Yes, including whichever one you like. Yes especially Homestuck - that can piss right off! Yes I have no time for Penny Arcade nor Order of the Stick - the latter is inoffensive but oof. Sorry XKCD, you can suck a black hole or whatever nerdy nonsense (I will additionally confess there are a few XKCDs I can at least respect). A rare exception would be Kill 6 Billion Demons, but only because the art is absolutely great - I still haven't read much of it.

2) I haven't watched any of the new new Doctor Who yet. No not because I'm a racist! I just feel like I'm not really ready for that whole high-energy wackiness vibe. I will eventually. I also haven't watched I think a single complete episode from before the 4th Doctor, almost the opposite of @J.Quondam!

3) I don't like Lord of the Rings much. I don't like Tolkien or his style much generally. None of the characters really speak to me (Samwise a bit maybe). But through various nerdy processes I have come to learn an enormous amount about LotR and Tolkien, and have a grudging respect for the old anarchist! And can inexplicably come out with weird bits of Tolkien knowledge that serious fans often forget or just don't know.

4) I think good art and just lots of art is more important than good writing in TT RPGs (aside from for rules clarity). Also all the like short stories and flavour stories and stuff in TT RPGs? Please stop putting it in them. I could count on one hand the number of times it's improved a TT RPG. To be fair this has significantly declined as a practice since the '90s.

5) I think people should stop saying Dark Souls/Elden Ring/Soulslikes are hard. They're not. I don't even mean "Git Gud", you don't even need to do that! And especially who think they're like master players because they're good at it - they aren't. They're pretty straightforward games that just adopt a learn-by-dying approach to gameplay, and I'm really surprised people still act like they're unusual when like half of all action-y RPGs/games are Souls-adjacent and Roguelikes are huge. I feel like a lot of people are getting discouraged from playing games they'd have a lot of fun with because of people's desire to claim these games are really difficult and gain kudos from that.

6) I believe that Brandon Sanderson is not a good writer, and much worse, he could be one, but he chooses not to be because it would be harder. Several of his books he touches real meaning or true ideas or real emotion, and then leaps away like he touched a hot stove. And nobody should be buying any more of the awful Stormlight Archive books, for god's sake people, you're just encouraging the man.

7) Basically every nerd loves twee things except me and I don't get it. Just twee destroys me at a cellular level. Like, if I was the badguy in a movie, you could throw twee on me, and I'd melt. And nerds love twee - horrible horrible twee. To be clear what I mean is:

affectedly or excessively dainty, delicate, cute, or quaint

Definition of TWEE

affectedly or excessively dainty, delicate, cute, or quaint… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

And it's not like I don't like things which are cute or delicate or quaint, because I do. But there's some combination, some threshold which can be passed and twee is reached and I cannot stand it. Some level of affected posturing that if exceeded, I cannot stand. I am afraid to say there have been times, particularly in Moffat's run, where Doctor Who reached this level. Missy was intolerable. A few times nerd favourites like Steven Universe did too (probably not when you'd think either).

I feel somewhat similarly about edge which is kind of like on the affected to honest scale, at the same end as twee, but on the cute to mean scale, the opposite end, but that doesn't have the same cellular revulsion, more of an "embarrassed for you" vibe.

I'm sure I'll come out with more and worse later lol.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

The problem with Nortradamian screeds is that they, like Nostradamus, are non-falsifiable.

The word "better" is doing so much heavy lifting there, with so many assumptions....

I quite agree - better is highly subjective - but I do think it would be long-term healthier and I think we'd have a more diverse and interesting vision of fantasy than is common right now. And that SF would get more respect.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

I suppose I should also add my confession:

Firefly does nothing for me.

 

[overgeeked]

5) I think people should stop saying Dark Souls/Elden Ring/Soulslikes are hard. They're not. I don't even mean "Git Gud", you don't even need to do that! And especially who think they're like master players because they're good at it - they aren't. They're pretty straightforward games that just adopt a learn-by-dying approach to gameplay, and I'm really surprised people still act like they're unusual when like half of all action-y RPGs/games are Souls-adjacent and Roguelikes are huge. I feel like a lot of people are getting discouraged from playing games they'd have a lot of fun with because of people's desire to claim these games are really difficult and gain kudos from that.

Yep. All you have to do is not quit and eventually you win. I get why people don't like that style of game. Same with old-school D&D. It's almost an educational experience disguised as a game. You learning to not give up...learning from your mistakes...learning to accept you can't always win easily...etc are all important in life, but it might not be the most fun gaming experience.

 

[KYRON45]

While throughout my life i have dabbled in all of the typical "geek" stuff....I'll never understand why Geeks always seem so angry.

This coming from a guy who has an irrational...dislike....for baseball.

 

[Alzrius]

Yep. All you have to do is not quit and eventually you win. I get why people don't like that style of game. Same with old-school D&D. It's almost an educational experience disguised as a game. You learning to not give up...learning from your mistakes...learning to accept you can't always win easily...etc are all important in life, but it might not be the most fun gaming experience.

I mean, I agree in principle, and I certainly won't begrudge people playing the games they like (and expect them not to begrudge me playing the ones I like in turn), but it does seem like there's a general trend away from games that require a dedicated amount of input to succeed at...or at least, that's how it looks to me when I see my friends all "playing" games on their phones whose draw seems to be that they play themselves.