General Discussion Thread II

Hand of Vecna

First Post
Rystil Arden said:
Ah, but you only lose your bonus from Disguise skill when you lack 10 minutes, so +30 girl winds up with +0 to Disguise. Joan Schmoe also has +0 because she never had the skill. It just seems absurd to me. Then again, for my character that it sort of affects, as soon as I saw that link to SK's post, I realised that next time I get PP, I need to either take away her Disguise ranks for plenty of Morph ranks or just get Quickness (Physical--limited to one thing only: Disguise) to offset the nonsensical ruling. Until then, I don't mind because it isn't a major aspect of the character, but I feel sorry for those to whom it was if they didn't get the chance to edit.
No, girl who had +30 would still get her Charisma bonus. And if no Morph is involved, then unless she's a PL 25 character, some of that +30 is going to be coming from Charisma (didn't you mention 14 ranks and a Charisma of 40/+15?), and so she'll still be better than Schmoe with +0 due to no Disguise ranks and a 10 Charisma.

Taking time to use skills that require time to use isn't absurd.
 

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Rystil Arden

First Post
HoV said:
Taking time to use skills that require time to use isn't absurd.

That's a strawman. My point is that the 'usual time' section should be by no means canonical when it makes absolutely no sense.

No, girl who had +30 would still get her Charisma bonus.

Really? I thought you lose the whole bonus that came from Disguise, not just Disguise ranks. Either way, it's easy to compare the +15 (ranks only) Disguise expert to the +0 (untrained). What is there to notice as 'wrong' in the disguise of the Japanese girl pretending to be a Japanese schoolgirl by wearing her uniform without taking 10 minutes?

Anyway, I think we should stop debating this for a few reasons:

1) I don't actually care because it doesn't really affect any of my characters much, and I'm going to ignore all silly rulings when I GM anyway

2) I don't think the ruling by SK is 'wrong', I just think it's stupid/silly, which is a qualitative argument that can never be proven either way

and 3) I don't seem to be getting across my example anyway and you also seem to be growing increasingly frustrated, which is a bit silly when debating a point that doesn't really matter just for fun--frustration makes it stop being fun ;)
 

Hand of Vecna

First Post
Okay, we'll agree to disagree. But, to directly answer your last question:

Rystil Arden said:
Really? I thought you lose the whole bonus that came from Disguise, not just Disguise ranks. Either way, it's easy to compare the +15 (ranks only) Disguise expert to the +0 (untrained).
Nope, you just lose the actual ranks in the Disguise skill if you don't take time to Disguise properly (at least, that's what seems to be implied since Charisma bonus is still added to Morph-enhanced skill rank-less Disguise checks). (Which, in a way, means you're doing more of a Bluff check -- "yeah, of course I am who I say I am. Just havin' a bad hair day. And... it's laundry day. Nothing clean.")
 
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Hand of Vecna

First Post
Rystil, it seems your upgraded version of Circe was never fully approved. Could you please tell us (either here or via e-mail to me, your choice) what exactly those extra 7pp were spent on?

Also, I noticed some "doubling up" on the Immunities her Rings offers. You've got both Life Support and Immunity/Fortitude effects on it, but Immunity/Fort effects already covers most of the stuff under Life Support. Immunity/Fort saves covers environmental cold & heat, starvation & thirst (which Life Support doesn't cover), suffocation, disease and poison, and environmental radiation. Only thing it doesn't cover is vacuum (which is a Constitution check). (Don't know if it'd cover high pressure, since I can't find any listing in the book describing what the effects of that are. Same goes for sleep.)
Oh, and the Duration on the Immunities need to be changed, to Sustained (no cost change, but she'll lose them if unconscious) or Continuous (doubles cost, but can keep them active even if KO'd), since by default Immunities are Permanent but you cannot have Permanent things in an Array. Ssame goes for her Ring-granted Impervious Toughness and Regeneration.
 

Rystil Arden

First Post
Hand of Vecna said:
Rystil, it seems your upgraded version of Circe was never fully approved. Could you please tell us (either here or via e-mail to me, your choice) what exactly those extra 7pp were spent on?

Also, I noticed some "doubling up" on the Immunities her Rings offers. You've got both Life Support and Immunity/Fortitude effects on it, but Immunity/Fort effects already covers most of the stuff under Life Support. Immunity/Fort saves covers environmental cold & heat, starvation & thirst (which Life Support doesn't cover), suffocation, disease and poison, and environmental radiation. Only thing it doesn't cover is vacuum (which is a Constitution check). (Don't know if it'd cover high pressure, since I can't find any listing in the book describing what the effects of that are. Same goes for sleep.)
Oh, and the Duration on the Immunities need to be changed, to Sustained (no cost change, but she'll lose them if unconscious) or Continuous (doubles cost, but can keep them active even if KO'd), since by default Immunities are Permanent but you cannot have Permanent things in an Array. Ssame goes for her Ring-granted Impervious Toughness and Regeneration.
She was fully approved, but I'll be glad to make those edits.
 


Rystil Arden

First Post
Hand of Vecna said:
There's some disagreement on that on the Judge's end. Hence my request to please remind us what those 7 additional points were spent on.
1 for Lesser Polyglot, 1 for Benefit (famous actress with lots of fans), 5 for the last five powers in the big array.
 

Hand of Vecna

First Post
Rystil Arden said:
1 for Lesser Polyglot, 1 for Benefit (famous actress with lots of fans), 5 for the last five powers in the big array.
The Ring of Antaeus, Telekinetic Mastery, Limited Omniscience, Mastery of Shaping, and Diamond of Eris, right?

Thanks for the info :)
 
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hero4hire

Explorer
re: Gun Monkey's Dual Guns.
The intent was for him to have to be disarmed twice for him to fully lose the device.

This was based on Steve Kenson's advice about two weapons and deemed by me to be balanced for a feat.

To call it a Alternate Power is a misnomer as it was intended to be a Power Feat and was described as such. (Me overlooking that it was called an Alternate Power is my fault entirely).

I still think it is balanced for a feat (one time immunity to a specific disarm).

re: Sierra's array

I do not think Sierra's devices in her array are very balanced. While I applaud Rystil's ability to use the rules in interesting ways, I feel overall the character's array is not balanced at all.
Indeed some of the abilities seem to be Game/Plotbreakers and would make many a GM work harder then they should simply to keep up with the character's abilities. In addition I am worried about fellow players feeling overshadowed, overpowered and unneeded.
 

Rystil Arden

First Post
re: Sierra's array

I do not think Sierra's devices in her array are very balanced. While I applaud Rystil's ability to use the rules in interesting ways, I feel overall the character's array is not balanced at all.
Indeed some of the abilities seem to be Game/Plotbreakers and would make many a GM work harder then they should simply to keep up with the character's abilities. In addition I am worried about fellow players feeling overshadowed, overpowered and unneeded.

Ah, but it's all in how it's used, isn't it? I've tried pretty hard to keep some rather sizable gaps in Sierra's capabilities, and, importantly, the new stuff is pretty much all there because people asked Sierra to do it because no one could handle that task. It's the weird thing about a living world--you can get very different teams, and that changes the way things work. Fortunately, Sierra being flighty is the perfect excuse to be erratic about which alts to use.

For example, take the Ring of Antaeus. I created that particularly because Salix had needed a tank for his adventure, and we had none available. Sierra will use it as a last resort if she must and nobody is around to tank, but she finds it boring, so she will almost never use the ring, and especially not if we already have a tank around. She's still not a better tank than, say, Paladin, who heals himself instead of taking damage from physical attacks. And it's easy to disarm and stops her from using her usual mode of transportation, flight (plus you get her off the ground and it's not working much anyway). I wanted the ring to make it easy to eliminate if the GM wants to do so as well as because it makes a whole lot of sense to me for a Mystic character to gain new and different uses for her powers whenever she finds a cool new magic item. It's a lot like what you see in the comics, where the BBEG or hero Mystic finds the X of the Great Wizard Y and now can do something awesome and new.

Another example, the Mastery of Shaping may seem a lot like the main, but people in Iridium Con made her use Extra Effort a whole bunch to extend herself and do slightly different transmutations than Human to Animal (disguises for Gun Monkey, etc). Thus, I thought that first of all, it would be better to add it if people wanted me to use it so much, and second, it seemed natural for the character to gain that as she grew in use of her main power in wider applications.

Diamond of Eris started out as a Teleport (by popular demand--and people always seem to be happy for her to have it), but I have a personal fear of messing up a game with a Teleport that goes too far and is available at any time, so I made it an easy-to-get-rid-of Device for that reason, so the GM can get rid of it if Teleport is inappropriate (there's even a note to that effect in the character sheet). Also, it seemed appropriate. Then I had more points to spend, so I also wanted to add some party protection to it. Most of you probably already know this, but Deflect is actually not that good--it's a fool's bet because while you think it gives you a 50/50 to beat the opponent of equal skill level, you actually have a much much lower chance because you have to take into account that the opponent already beat the Defense of the target, so they always roll high.

Etc for the others, but not much time right now. Honestly, I can point out characters all around that could have these same questions asked about them, but I won't because they've all worked fine because the players handle their characters well and try to help make the game more fun instead of less. Sierra has just been made prominent and singled out by the fact that I felt like talking about it just because I have fun talking about rules and mechanics and stuff.
 

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