Getting the feature of a PrC without taking it - how much should it cost?

[Keefe the Thief]

I DM a regular Eberron campaign, and will be able to play a couple of sessions while somebody else takes over the steering wheel - a nice change. The Artificer i created is perfect, and i am looking forward to play him. What would fit very good into his story is the ability to embed warforged components. Now, i know that there is the Renegade Mastermaker PrC, the problem is just... i dont like it. And i don´t like MoE, and don´t allow it in my game. I want this class feature (embed component, the Renegade Mastermaker gets it at level 7) without allowing all the stuff i don´t like in MoE. But how much should it "cost"?

The player who takes over as a GM would easily accept any ruling i would give on the topic. But i am biased, of course, because it gives my character cool stuff. That´s why i am asking ENworld: One Feat? One Spellcasting progression? Money for training? A bonus feat?

What would you rule?

 

[Crothian]

I'd make a feat but with pretty hard to get requirements. Figure out how fast one can get this ability and make sure the requirements make it so a character has to be one ro two levels higher to get it.

 

[Keefe the Thief]

To get the Ability, you have to get into the PrC, normally:
8 Points in any Craft Skill, Craft MA&A, Craft WI. Means level 5 at least to get in, and the PrC gets the ability at level 7. Which would mean level 12 for getting the ability. If i restrict my new feat to level 14, i´ll never really be able to get it, i think. Hmm...

Embed Component
You learn how to embed Warforged components into your body.
Prerequisite: Craft [any] 11, any four magic item creation feats.
Benefit: You are able to embed all Warforged components into your body. Every warforged component grants you 1 additional hit point.


Any other ideas?

 

[Crothian]

A feat is much easier to get then taking 7 levels of a prestige class that's why I think it should take a higher level to get the feat.

For that ability I think I would also require the feat Craft Construct and something like toughness or endurance. Being able to use warforged components is pretty powerful ability. I think requiring someone to be level 12 or higher is very appropriate.

 

[Nonlethal Force]

Interesting Question. Within the last month I've purchased "Buy the Numbers" - a pdf you can get through ENWorld's RPGNow affiliation. It has totally changed my approach to gaming in that I've never really liked the "preformed" class idea. I'd much rather design classes that I want to play rather than being forced to take a whole PrC for this ability or that ability. If you think along those terms, it is totally worth the money. [NOTE: I have a college degree in Mathematics, and I do have a few problems with his mathematical progression and value assignment. But on the whole, it is a beautiful product]

Off the cuff, my suggestion would be to follow these rules:

1. Figure out the minimum character level this PrC ability could be taken at. [Although in a campaign where not everyone benefits from this feat generation ability you might want to take Crothian's suggestion above and jack it up a level or two]

2. Pick out all the skill based PrC prerequisites that have anything to do with the class ability in question. [Craft sounds like a big one for this ability, but also Knowledge (_?_)] Make the ability a feat with skill checks equal to ability level from #1 plus 3.

3. Figure out any feats that sound like a legitimate prerequisite. PrC prerequisites are a great place to start for this one.

4. Figure out any class abilities that make sense to have as prerequisites. (if any)



Run it by the new DM and have fun.

 

[Keefe the Thief]

Yes, i agree: It is too easy. Not enough flavor, too. Let´s try this:

Embed Component
You learn how to embed Warforged components into your body.
Prerequisite: Craft homunculus, Craft Construct, Knowledge [Arcana] 15, Craft [Blacksmithing] 10, Retain Essence Class Feature
Benefit: You are able to embed all Warforged components into your body. Every warforged component grants you 1 additional hit point.

Means Level 12 minimum, a feat not every artificer gets (Craft Construct, though he can take it as a bonus feat), Artificer level 5+


Another Idea i just had: make the feat easier to take, but increase the cost of the actual crafting process:

Embed Component, Lesser
You learn how to embed Warforged components into your body, but the process damages both your health and your life essence.
Prerequisite: Craft Construct, Craft [Blacksmithing] 9, Retain Essence Class Feature
Benefit: You are able to embed all Warforged Components into your body - for a price.
- The Component damages your health, costing you 1 hp
- You have to pay XP for embedding the component (half the XP you would pay if you crafted the item yourself). The XP are expended for the specific item you embed: they are lost if it is destroyed or removed and stolen. The XP cost can be reduced with the relevant feats

 

[blargney the second]

I think Crothian had the right of it: all the prereqs of the PrC and two levels later. Anything less is really just playing favourites with yourself.

 

[Dagredhel]

I'd suggest that Craft Flesh Graft - Warforged (prerq: Heal 10 ranks) should be included in the requirements, along with Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Craft Wonderous Item, and 11 ranks in either Blacksmith, Armorsmith, or Weaponsmith.

...I just read the description of Renegade Mastermaker and compared it to taking straight Artificer levels and getting the Embed component ability as a feat instead.

I have to agree with Crothian (no big surprise there.) Cherrypicking the ability potentially gives your character 5 feats, metamagic spell trigger and metamagic spell completion, and 2 levels of spellcasting by 12th level as compared to what a Renegade Mastermaker gets. It's not exactly an even trade.

 

[Keefe the Thief]

Hmm, it seems that the main problem i face is that, even with even harder prerequisites, i´m still not giving up enough to make it a fair choice. How about this:

Embed Component
You learn how to embed Warforged components into your body.
Prerequisite: Craft homunculus, Craft Construct, Craft Wondrous Item, Knowledge [Arcana] 15, Craft [Blacksmithing] 15, Retain Essence Class Feature
Benefit: You are able to embed all Warforged components into your body. Every warforged component grants you 1 additional hit point.
Special: Immediately when you embed the first component your innate magic weakens to power it. You are treated as being one Artificer level lower, as long as at least one Warforged component is embedded in you. All class abilities you already gained from leveling up go dormant until you gain your next level. There is no way to remove this condition until you remove the last Warforged component.


If i only make the feat "prerequisites of the Renegade Mastermaker +2 levels" it is still far too good:

Prerequisite: Humanoid, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Craft Wondrous Item, Craft (Armorsmithing, Weaponsmithing, Sculpting or Gemcutting) 17 (8 to get into the PrC + 7 Levels to get to Embed Component + 2 extra levels).

 

[Piratecat]

I'll slide this over to House Rules. Vrroom!

Please keep all warforged components inside the vehicle at all times.