Getting tired of hearing "Grognard" and "Nostalgia"

[ForeverSlayer]

Here is a thread that you will find some. I will post more as I find them.

 

[ppaladin123]

Philosophy of science nit-pick:

You cannot prove inductively, you can only disprove. Falsifiability, logical/post positivism and all that. Burden of proof: provide observations that force one to reject one's null hypothesis/world view.

Anyway here are my thoughts:

If you dislike 4e but like certain aspects of it and think that you can incorporate those aspects into a future game system (e.g. d&d 5e, pathfinder 2) that you'd really enjoy, it makes sense to post here. You can talk about what works, and what doesn't and how to build on what does constructively. You can, in the meantime, get feedback on ideas to tweak 4e with houserules so that it becomes a system you'd like to run while you wait for an even better game.

If you dislike everything about 4e and find it has no redeeming qualities, it doesn't make sense to post here unless the developers show up and ask for feedback on how to make a better edition. Rather, it makes sense to post on the boards of those games that you'd rather use as a base or a substantial chunk for a new system (i.e. games that you think do many things right and thus have redeeming features).

If you already have a perfect game system in mind whether it be something other than d&d or a previous edition of d&d, have fun playing it and nuts to anyone who doesn't like it.

If you enjoy talking about game design in abstract (e.g. "I don't think AC is a good mechanic and here are my thoughts on a replacement" rather than "I hate how 4e does magic. End communication.") General discussion is probably a better forum to use.

If you just like arguing on the internet, whether to sharpen your rhetorical skills or vent or gripe about things you hate, enworld is probably a bit too restrictive/grandma friendly for your purposes. Do you know about Enworld's sister site, Circus Maximus? You can say anything; I highly recommend it.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

Philosophy of science nit-pick:

You cannot prove inductively, you can only disprove. Falsifiability, logical/post positivism and all that. Burden of proof: provide observations that force one to reject one's null hypothesis/world view.

Anyway here are my thoughts:

If you dislike 4e but like certain aspects of it and think that you can incorporate those aspects into a future game system (e.g. d&d 5e, pathfinder 2) that you'd really enjoy, it makes sense to post here. You can talk about what works, and what doesn't and how to build on what does constructively. You can, in the meantime, get feedback on ideas to tweak 4e with houserules so that it becomes a system you'd like to run while you wait for an even better game.

If you dislike everything about 4e and find it has no redeeming qualities, it doesn't make sense to post here unless the developers show up and ask for feedback on how to make a better edition. Rather, it makes sense to post on the boards of those games that you'd rather use as a base or a substantial chunk for a new system (i.e. games that you think do many things right and thus have redeeming features).

If you already have a perfect game system in mind whether it be something other than d&d or a previous edition of d&d, have fun playing it and nuts to anyone who doesn't like it.

If you enjoy talking about game design in abstract (e.g. "I don't think AC is a good mechanic and here are my thoughts on a replacement" rather than "I hate how 4e does magic. End communication.") General discussion is probably a better forum to use.

If you just like arguing on the internet, whether to sharpen your rhetorical skills or vent or gripe about things you hate, enworld is probably a bit too restrictive/grandma friendly for your purposes. Do you know about Enworld's sister site, Circus Maximus? You can say anything; I highly recommend it.

There are certain aspects of 4th edition that I do like but I like Pathfinder better. I actually witnessed someone on the Wizards boards arguing with someone who tried 4th edition, didn't like it and said they preferred Pathfinder to 4th edition. Then you had someone telling this person that the only liked it because of nostalgia reasons. They said there was no way that person could like Pathfinder over 4th edition because 4th edition was such a superior system.

 

[Dannager]

Actually DM it had nothing to do with what you posted. It was mainly Dan and others like him that dismiss other people as grognards and liking previous editions as nothing but nostalgia instead of actually liking the old systems because of the system itself.

Since I didn't actually do that, and since I don't actually believe that, I'm going to go with: You're looking really, really hard for new and exciting ways to be offended on behalf of everyone else.

Yep, I think that's about right.

I'm getting tired of hearing you start new threads, and threadcrap all over everyone else's threads.

I mean, good lord, weren't you the guy who was telling people earlier "If you don't like what I'm posting you don't have to read it?" We weren't even talking about other editions of the game when I wrote the post you quoted. OnlineDM and I were discussing the transition from print media to a primary online model, and that's where the nostalgia comment came from. You're getting really bad about this.

 

[Pentius]

Here is a thread that you will find some. I will post more as I find them.

So we ENworlders are accountable for behavior on other forums, now, too?

 

[ForeverSlayer]

So we ENworlders are accountable for behavior on other forums, now, too?

It's been said here as well.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

Since I didn't actually do that, and since I don't actually believe that, I'm going to go with: You're looking really, really hard for new and exciting ways to be offended on behalf of everyone else.

Yep, I think that's about right.

I'm getting tired of hearing you start new threads, and threadcrap all over everyone else's threads.

I mean, good lord, weren't you the guy who was telling people earlier "If you don't like what I'm posting you don't have to read it?" We weren't even talking about other editions of the game when I wrote the post you quoted. OnlineDM and I were discussing the transition from print media to a primary online model, and that's where the nostalgia comment came from. You're getting really bad about this.

You were called out on it so now you are trying to change what you said.

 

[the Jester]

If thats all you can see then I would suggest getting your eyes checked.

Okay, you're right, there is more- you're also getting personally insulting with a number of posters here.

Other than that, though, how about if you answer my question: what is there to discuss, other than picking a fight? I'm down to discuss it, but not if the whole point is just to piss everyone off and troll the people that like 4e.

 

[Dannager]

You were called out on it so now you are trying to change what you said.

Can you seriously not follow the discussion we were having? Are you unable to do that?

D&D is selling less books, in part because of less in the pipeline, but part of it is the fact that DDI makes it so players don't have to buy the books or really (as I've seen at Encounters and Cons) actually learn the basics of the game. The Builder Tells All. And that's sad, to me, because back in the day, I know many kids who ONLY took an interest in reading because of D&D.

I see where you're coming from, but I'm not moved by nostalgia. There will still be D&D books, but it's possible we'll get to the point that they're secondary. With new players right now, I advise them to get one of the Heroes of the F... books, and if they like it, get a DDI subscription.

I'm also a little tired of seeing D&D hobbled by short-sighted nostalgia. I've been playing D&D for most of my life, but I'd much rather focus on what can make the game more exciting in the future than what used to make it exciting in the past.

Nowhere in that post did I discuss any earlier edition of the game. I was referring solely to the transition from print media to an online model, and how the nostalgia that people have for print books has impeded that transition. I don't have to change what I said, because what I said is right there and really ought to speak for itself.

Anything else you may think I said is completely in your head.

Now stop.

Maybe take a break from the forums for a while. You've pretty much stressed the goodwill this community has towards new posters to the breaking point.

 

[Pentius]

It's been said here as well.

And you pulled up all of one quote, which wasn't even about any specific edition of the game, before you had to go to WotC boards to pull up more. You're reaching pretty far.

You were called out on it so now you are trying to change what you said.

No, trying to change what he said would be going back and editing his original posts. This is paraphrasing those posts.