D&D 5E Giving the arcane gish an identity.

[Laurefindel]

I mean that a Class that functioned like the. Asic Elf would not met the narrow criteria found in this thread, same as the 5E Bladesinger, Eldritch Knight, Hexblade, Artificer, etc.

Indeed, the basic classes would not meet the narrow criteria of anything we have now, but they serve as original templates. As such, the elf is the original fighter/magic user mix which, if memory serves, was published before the fiend folio with the first mentioning of "gish".

Same could be said about AD&D's paladin, which doesn't have a smite attack mechanics, or 2e AD&D's specialists wizards who lacked any distinctive features other than more spell slots.

 

[Vaalingrade]

I accidentally posted my thoughts on stabnerd lore on another thread:

For me, they're mages who studied magic as a martial art. Done. No weird meta crap DMs can use as an excuse to restrict them, no limitations on how players can use or imagine them baked in, no lame lore new campaign settings have to awkwardly slot in.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

I like baking in protection to the identity of the Swordmage/Arcane-Gish/Stabnerd class. That's what I did in my homebrew class. Paladins get Lay on Hands to heal and cure diseases/poison, the Arcknight gets Eldritch Ward to grant themselves and others temporary hit points and make it harder to lose concentration from taking damage.

 

[Undrave]

It was the OG Gish, but from what people are saying here it might not count.

It counts enough for a historical precedent that a 'Warrior-Mage' was a major class at some point in the past.

I mean that a Class that functioned like the. Asic Elf would not met the narrow criteria found in this thread, same as the 5E Bladesinger, Eldritch Knight, Hexblade, Artificer, etc.

Pretty sure the criteria aren't as narrow as you think, it's the opposite really. People want a larger concept like a proper class that can then be built to different specification.

My own version of this class is called a Sentinel. Rangers range. Sentinels "keep watch." They are alert and paying attention [to magical things] and "watching"...but are they watching to defend magic in the world? Sure. Alert to magical goings-on for their own purposes/selfish ends? Yup, that too. Paying attention/learning about magic to stop its encroachment or possible destruction of the world? Could be that too. Are they the "sacred" order of magical [arcane] archers from the high-elf kingdom responsible for the direct protection of the elfin sorcerers council? Sure are! Are they medium armor-wearing "battlemages" -more interested in flinging spells than swordplay, but they still carry/know what to do with a sword if needed- from the nation of the Archmagus Imperialis? Yup, them too.

"Watcher" could work too then, no?

So, the concept/identity is simply: a weapon-trained combat-capable (melee and/or ranged!) warrior who knows arcane spells, possesses arcane knowledge, and expertise encountering/dealing with/defeating "arcane creatures" and magical threats.

I think it's important that they be able to mix both the mundane world of the sword and the fantastical world of magic in a single action. If not, he's just a Eldtrich Knight again.

 

[Undrave]

I accidentally posted my thoughts on stabnerd lore on another thread:

Making them proper stabnerds. There's a bit of toe stepping with the Monk though, isn't there?

I like baking in protection to the identity of the Swordmage/Arcane-Gish/Stabnerd class. That's what I did in my homebrew class. Paladins get Lay on Hands to heal and cure diseases/poison, the Arcknight gets Eldritch Ward to grant themselves and others temporary hit points and make it harder to lose concentration from taking damage.

hm... How about a feature where you gain X temp HP and as long as you have those temp HP you gain a benefit, of your choice, such as Advantage on concentration checks?

 

[Parmandur]

I think it's important that they be able to mix both the mundane world of the sword and the fantastical world of magic in a single action. If not, he's just a Eldtrich Knight again.

But that doesn't apply to the Basic Elf, or the 1E Fighter/Magic-user...

 

[Undrave]

But that doesn't apply to the Basic Elf, or the 1E Fighter/Magic-user...

No, but this would be a REFINED version of that concept, so I don't think it matter if it wasn't as graceful in the past. The existence of the Elf just proves that there was always a wish for a character class that would mix both sword and sworcery. We just need something BETTER is all.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

I accidentally posted my thoughts on stabnerd lore on another thread:

Keep in mind that a loose 'base' lore for a class doesn't mean you're restricted to that lore at all. Only a certain few are that restrictive. I get that some DM's will force you into only following the one exact story the class suggests. But with the exception of a few like warlock and paladin, most as usually left to the player.

Take a look at ranger: "Warriors of the wilderness, rangers specialize in hunting the monsters that threaten the edges of civilization—humanoid raiders, rampaging beasts and monstrosities, terrible giants, and deadly dragons. They learn to track their quarry as a predator does, moving stealthily through the wilds and hiding themselves in brush and rubble. Rangers focus their combat training on techniques that are particularly useful against their specific favoured foes."

So by that, you have to be a wilderness living monster hunter, protecting civilisation.

Except you can easily pick the guild artisan background, choose strength, wield a greataxe, and pick up the feat to get heavy armour. All as a ranger.

So now you're an elite dwarven warrior who used to be a mason, but joined the army as an elite vanguard/breeching soldier in a war against elementals. And then got dishonourably discharged and took up adventuring instead. So absolutely nothing to do with what the class description says.

 

[Mind of tempest]

I say our stabnerd is made, magic-infused into their body artificially thus explain why they are different from other arcane and martial dabblers.

what about summoning back up who you also get to control but without the need of bonus actions but you can say use it once a day for the third level and you never get more than five charges?

 

[Frozen_Heart]

But that doesn't apply to the Basic Elf, or the 1E Fighter/Magic-user...

I mean it technically does. But game mechanics have moved on since then, and smoother ways of doing things have been used since.

So when bladesinger and EK are playing as this disjointed multiclass which functions as a part wizard and then a part fighter. And then you look across at the party paladin and ranger, who are seamlessly blending magic and martial ability in the way that your gish could once do, but can no longer do. It's easy to see the frustration.

If the arcane gish had always acted like this, casting and then hitting separately, no one would be complaining. If the paladin and ranger used the cleric/druid list, people wouldn't complain about the EK/bladesinger using the wizard list, as we wouldn't know that there was a more interesting way of doing things.

But we've had two editions of DnD and two editions of pathfinder where they can blend magic into their weapon strikes. And then we've had 5e where paladin and ranger can also blend magic into their weapon strikes. And then we have that removed specifically for arcane gishes this edition, it just feels like a flat downgrade in how it plays, even if the power level comes out the same.