Gods playground

[Nephtys]

Hmm, then its about 1000 years ago that Thef'chu Nefut created the Goblinoids. Assuming that their rate of population growth is 10% per year (about double the growth rate in some developing countries today), that makes the population double every 8 years (actually a bit less). So if she created 1000 goblinoids year 500 (the lowest possible number to prevent genetic damage due to inbreeding) that makes the population today... (calculating without using calculus)... Ah, to put in in Goblin terms: Many, many, many.
The primitive methods I've used for the calculation seem to suggest that the planet would be populated to its full potential, excepting those areas held by the elves and the aberrations. Depending on the fertility of the planet and the land/sea ratio and considering that goblins (though not Hobgoblins and Bugbears) need less food than humans, and the pre-industrial agricultural technology, that number could amount to about 2-3 billions. Trying to calculate how many of Thef'chu Nefut's worshipers would have joined her in the afterlife gives me a headache but its many many more.

So, the question I'm getting at is: How many divine ranks does she gain?

 

[magic_gathering2001]

Alright 1500 works for me

As for gaining ranks from followers...
Elementals don't die but they increase at the normal rate...
and maybe 500 for each plane assuming Nephtys is right on genetics...
how many is that?
i think a lot

 

[Wrahn]

Hmm, then its about 1000 years ago that Thef'chu Nefut created the Goblinoids. Assuming that their rate of population growth is 10% per year (about double the growth rate in some developing countries today), that makes the population double every 8 years (actually a bit less). So if she created 1000 goblinoids year 500 (the lowest possible number to prevent genetic damage due to inbreeding) that makes the population today... (calculating without using calculus)... Ah, to put in in Goblin terms: Many, many, many.
The primitive methods I've used for the calculation seem to suggest that the planet would be populated to its full potential, excepting those areas held by the elves and the aberrations. Depending on the fertility of the planet and the land/sea ratio and considering that goblins (though not Hobgoblins and Bugbears) need less food than humans, and the pre-industrial agricultural technology, that number could amount to about 2-3 billions. Trying to calculate how many of Thef'chu Nefut's worshipers would have joined her in the afterlife gives me a headache but its many many more.

So, the question I'm getting at is: How many divine ranks does she gain?

Being DR 20, I would guess exactly none

Many, many problems can confront any given civilization that doesn't take into account population growth, not the least of which is a tyranical power base wishing to maintain control of their population. There is no modern communication, no modern transportation, a stone age civilization could not support a unifed empire of any great size.

My guess would be given what is represented was true, the native goblin population would, given it's nature, do one of several things. 1) Develop magic or other means to to control their empire (the Roman's used advanced road construction) 2) Splinter into several competing city-states/tribes leading to wars (they are LE after all) 3) Goblin expansion would be restricted by a tyranical governance, limited to what they could control

In addition, there are many natural barrier to expansion, such as oceans, mountain ranges, and deserts. Stone age civilizations living in close proximity are just inviting disease. If you are looking for that large of a follower base (one that shares the same culture and religion), you are going to have to have a better technology base.

As an example of a stone age civilization, The Aztecs at it's hieght was estimated at 25 million.

 

[Nephtys]

Being DR 20, I would guess exactly none

Many, many problems can confront any given civilization that doesn't take into account population growth, not the least of which is a tyranical power base wishing to maintain control of their population. There is no modern communication, no modern transportation, a stone age civilization could not support a unifed empire of any great size.

My guess would be given what is represented was true, the native goblin population would, given it's nature, do one of several things. 1) Develop magic or other means to to control their empire (the Roman's used advanced road construction) 2) Splinter into several competing city-states/tribes leading to wars (they are LE after all) 3) Goblin expansion would be restricted by a tyranical governance, limited to what they could control

In addition, there are many natural barrier to expansion, such as oceans, mountain ranges, and deserts. Stone age civilizations living in close proximity are just inviting disease. If you are looking for that large of a follower base (one that shares the same culture and religion), you are going to have to have a better technology base.

As an example of a stone age civilization, The Aztecs at it's hieght was estimated at 25 million.

Heh, then maybe it's time to spawn herself a pantheon, putting her surplus divine energy into some of her kids... There are a lot of important portfolios still unclaimed.

But they do have access to magic, both arcane and more importantly divine. They have instantaneous communication, both with other communities and with their deity (who's not going to tolerate division within her own ranks). Being lawful they have the resources and inclination to create a government enforcement system to keep fractionalism down. A few special cadres could scry/teleport/smackdown any insurrection the Goddess doesn't deal with herself. Divine magic is good at controlling disease (especially since there's no deity with the Disese portfolio), and exploring the planet with magical means is easy.
Depending on what technological level the elves are about now (since I'm keeping one level behind them) the goblinoids are probably a bronze age or iron age civilisation.

 

[magic_gathering2001]

That brings up a point. what about things that don't have domains. Are we saying that only things that have dieties exist or do some things come with others (Disease with cities/death)

 

[Wrahn]

My assumption was that elves were mortal creatures and that what the Dweller had done was not universal, but an abberation amoung the elves (that they would occasionally birth monstrosities). If all their children were abberations and they are mortal creatures, the elves would have died out long ago. If they are immortal their population growth, at the very best, is zero, more likely negative and populating those cities is going to be difficult.

So Suicidal Llama, are elves immortal?

 

[magic_gathering2001]

What are abberations like as well, are they standard or different in any way?
Golbins too?

As for mine, elementals are of elven build and such, but are immortal (if elves aren't) and have the subtype of their native plane. THey also gain appropriate abilities (water breathing elemental traits) but are otherwise almost exactly elfish.

 

[Nephtys]

What are abberations like as well, are they standard or different in any way?
Golbins too?

As for mine, elementals are of elven build and such, but are immortal (if elves aren't) and have the subtype of their native plane. THey also gain appropriate abilities (water breathing elemental traits) but are otherwise almost exactly elfish.

Haven't given it much thought actually. The Goblinoids (Goblins, Hobgoblins and Bugbears) are pretty standard, except that they are a bit more fertile and a lot more lawful. I suppose that having been under the near total control of the Goddess of the Dead for some thousand years they would have a healthy respect for death but be braver then standard, since those who die for the cause can expect a less hellish afterlife than those who betray it by weakness or malice. Their society is cruel but civilized.
Excepting the most talented individuals, the Goblins are the slave caste (aided by mindless undead), the Bugbears and Hobs are the Warrior class, and the Hobgoblins are the Priest and Ruling class (along with some talented Goblins). With the exception of the mindless undead workers I haven't really done much with the Undead portfolio thus far...

 

[Wrahn]

I will agrue that the instability of magic effects all magic, divine, arcane, or wild. Even if you use the D&D model, wild magic, anti-magic and the like are all effected the same divine or arcane. Gods of magic have proven to be able to effect divine and Bea'ral's domain is magic, not arcane magic.

Of course he can not stop Thef'chu Nefut direct action, but I propose he can interfer with the operation of the Thef'chu Nefut's followers magic, but that is for the Llama to decided.

As far as the Goblin Empire goes, the reasoning for the collapse is thus: The goblins do not surrender their worship of Thef'chu Nefut, nor do they give up their lawful ways, but having to operate with no central authority for a 100 years (which is 10 generations, or roughly as long as the United States has been in existence in goblin years), once comunication is re-established unification will be painful (They may be Lawful but they are also evil, surrender of temporal power will not be friendly). Predictably unification should lead to civil war.

Lastly, one should not directly contradict a post in IC, but difference of opinion should be brought here. We are telling a story there, here we are hashing out a "reality"

 

[Nephtys]

I simply assumed that just like Thef'chu Nefut with the Domain of the Dead was unable to take the followers of other deities to her afterlife so would Bea'ral be unable to affect the divine magic of other deities. If Llama decides otherwise I can only congratulate you, because all other deities are then almost completely powerless.

You'll notice that Voidrazors followers resisted all the effects of your action, for both arcane and divine magic as well as their own spell like and supernatural abilities. And I doubt that the other deities will simply accept your power over their followers without discussion. After all, the elves and elementals are as dependant upon magic as the goblins if not more so.

So we should not contradict one another IC? We should just go along with any action any of us decide no matter how outrageous when it directly concerns our own followers. So if I was to write that one of the fragments of the moon was to fall to earth and just happen to crush the Elven city and everyone in it you'd all be ok with that? You'd all simply continue the story from that point?

-

My point about the Goblins is that even if you could shut down both arcane and divine magic for 100 years the politically dominant priesthood would still be in charge of things locally, and since the priests can still communicate with their deity trough prayer they will still know her will. They know that when they die they will still belong to her, so they wouldn't disobey her.
Just think of how powerful the idea of God is in the real world, where the existence of the divine is unproven. And then consider how faithful people who have been living in a theocratic society for a thousand years in direct contact with their deity would be, when they know she will show no mercy for any failure to obey her will. Consider how obedient those little sheep would be, when in the real world people blow themselves up for far less.