Golems v Spells

[Greenfield]

The book write up of Golems says that they're immune to all but a very few specific spells.

In our campaign we ran into some Chain Golems (an Iron Golem variant, for those unfamiliar), in a room that spouted fire at random intervals.

Again, for those not in the know, fire heals Iron Golems, so these guys effectively had a Fast Heal 5.

When we first spotted them they were "statues" in the middle of the room. Players in our game take it as an article of faith that there really are no such things as statues, just constructs that haven't animated yet. We confirmed this by hurling acid at one of them. It seared the surface, then we watched it heal the next time a gout of flame came up.

Since we needed to get through this room, we decided to simply try to bypass them. Although the room was written up so that they'd activate whenever someone entered the room, the Golems in fact have no extrordinary way to detect anything. Darkvision is about it. No tremorsense, no blindsense, no lifesense, no nothing.

So we used a Horn of Fog to fill the room with an Obscuring Mist, tossed a Ghost Sound off to one side to distract, and snuck through. (We used the Horn instead of just casting the spell because we knew the fire would punch holes in it, and the horn constantly renews the fog cloud effect.)

Which brings us to the question of the moment. Golems are immune to magic. Ghost Sound is an Illusion (Figment) cantrip, not mind-affecting, which means that the sound is real. Can Golems hear it? Can they be distracted by it?

The Obscuring Mist provides actual visual obstruction, even to darkvision. Can a Golem see through it?

If we'd tried a Grease spell on the floor, could a Golem slip on it?

None of these spells allows for Spell Resistance (a general requirement to affect Constructs in general), and have real physical effects, yet none of them are on the list of spells that can affect the Golem in question.

So how would you rule?

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

The spells work just fine. Grease on the floor and a Ghost Sound aren't affecting the golems directly (not the best word but not sure what else to all it, perhaps I could say the spells' interactions with the golems is "incidental"?), and as you said, there's no SR.

 

[Dandu]

To quote Aiva from Devil Dogs, "Immunity to magic does not mean immunity to the effects of magic."

 

[Sekhmet]

The Sage suggests that any spell that does not allow SR affects a Golem normally, so a Golem is not immune to the effects of Darkness, Grease, Evard's Black Tentacles, etcetera etcetera.

 

[billd91]

Nor would a golem be unable to see via a magical light source like an everburning torch or walk across a wall of force used to bridge a chasm. It is unperturbed by spells that directly affect it, but may still be affected by the downstream effects of a magical spell, such as changes in the environment that could affect anybody in position to be affected.

 

[xigbar]

The magic is being used to produce to produce a mundane naturally occurring fog/grease/sound. Although the means by which they are made is supernatural, the outcome itself is something that would normally affect the golems.

 

[Greenfield]

That's pretty much the way we play it.

Still, under Constructs, it says that they're immune to any spell that allows an SR.

Golems, being constructs, get that automatically, with exceptions noted for each type. But the "Immune to all spells" qualifier is also an exception, a statement above and beyond what's granted to Constructs in general.

Note: Fire Seeds (A Druidic spell) is a powerful damage dealing spell that allows no SR. I'd still rule that Golems are immune to its damage.

But that leaves us with a huge gray area. Some spells work on them, some don't, and there doesn't seem to be a hard and fast rule.

Toppling a Wall of Stone or Iron on them would certainly work, but I don't think Glyph of Warding would (Another with no spell resistance.)

Not sure about Tentacles either.

Anyone care to try and make sense out of this?

 

[Dandu]

Tentacles are going to physically grab a golem. Magic Resistance isn't going to work against them for the same reason that it does not work against a summoned monster which tries to grapple the golem.

 

[Sekhmet]

That's pretty much the way we play it.

Still, under Constructs, it says that they're immune to any spell that allows an SR.

Golems, being constructs, get that automatically, with exceptions noted for each type. But the "Immune to all spells" qualifier is also an exception, a statement above and beyond what's granted to Constructs in general.

Note: Fire Seeds (A Druidic spell) is a powerful damage dealing spell that allows no SR. I'd still rule that Golems are immune to its damage.

But that leaves us with a huge gray area. Some spells work on them, some don't, and there doesn't seem to be a hard and fast rule.

Toppling a Wall of Stone or Iron on them would certainly work, but I don't think Glyph of Warding would (Another with no spell resistance.)

Not sure about Tentacles either.

Anyone care to try and make sense out of this?

The “immunity to magic” entry in the opening text of the
golem entry (page 134 of the MM) is only a general description
of that special quality. Each golem’s specific immunity to
magic entry provides the actual rules mechanics for
adjudicating that immunity.
For example, a clay golem is immune to fireball (because
that spell allows spell resistance), but not to Melf’s acid arrow
(because it doesn’t allow spell resistance). It would be immune
to disintegrate, except for the special note that follows
indicating the effect of a disintegrate spell on a clay golem.

Also

Note that a golem cannot voluntarily lower its magic
immunity so that it can receive a harmless spell, but a golem’s
magic immunity does not extend to magic the golem uses on
itself (just as spell resistance doesn’t apply to such effects). A
golem can make use of any magic item that works continuously
or is use activated (provided whoever commands the golem is
on hand to put the item on the golem or order the golem to pick
it up). Being mindless, a golem cannot use any item activated
by command, spell, or spell completion.

The example of Glyph of Warding allows SR if you choose the Blast type, so the Golem would be immune to it in that case (though he would still trigger it). The second effect type (storing a harmful level 3 or lower spell) would also be triggered, but immunity would be based on the spell that was stored and not the Glyph of Warding itself, thus a Glyph of Warding that stores a Fireball cannot effect a golem, but one with Melf's Acid Arrow can.

Evard's Tentacles also does not care about your SR, nor does it care about your immunity.

The "Spell Immunity" quantifier is a remnant of previous editions where Golems were immune to far more than they are now.

 

[Greenfield]

Thank you for that authoritative ruling. I'll pass it along to my group.

Q; Where would I find the Sage's writings? Is there a link?