Good vs. Evil

[Paraxis]

Ok a simple fix to alignment that I am pretty sure has been done before.

No alignments.

Still have auras of good and evil like the paladin abilites and clerics of good gods. Outsiders and undead both have auras that match old alignment.

Detect evil only reveals clerics who can command undead, outsiders, and undead.
Detect good only reveals cleric who can turn undead and outsiders who are good.

Smite evil works the same, same with holy and unholly weapons ect just the number of creatures they work on is smaller.

No Law Chaos axis, just for lawful required classes like monk and paladin make up codes of conduct they have to follow.

Makes the world a much greyer place as far as things go.

 

[comrade raoul]

I tend to like changes like this. However, the paladin is partly balanced with the assumption that he would be able to smite evil in most encouters (that is, most encounters in typical play include an evil opponent or two), so this change considerably reduces the paladin's power. Accordingly, consider granting the paladin a few bonus feats or something.

 

[Kisanji Arael]

I tend to like changes like this. However, the paladin is partly balanced with the assumption that he would be able to smite evil in most encouters (that is, most encounters in typical play include an evil opponent or two), so this change considerably reduces the paladin's power. Accordingly, consider granting the paladin a few bonus feats or something.

Or you can give them Smite Opponent, which targets anyone who has attacked the paladin, his allies, or who clearly opposes the cause.

However, these kinds of things do sort of remove Smite Evil as a lie detector.

 

[Li Shenron]

I think it's a very good idea.

I wouldn't worry too much about reducing Smite Evil. It certainly doesn't make the whole Paladin class unworthy, and in at least IMC there's always plenty of undead and demons...

 

[Shades of Green]

I was thinking about a similar idea. I woudn't remove alignment altogather, but blur it significantly. Most mortals (including most non-outsider, non-dragon monsters) don't have alignments; outsiders have clear alignments (though Good vs. Evil is usually outshadowed by Law vs. Chaos), gods (actually very powerful outsiders/spirits) tend to have very clear alignments, Dragons and most sentient undead have alignments, but these aren't that strict, and they do have a significant amount of free will and variation outside their alignments.

Most mortals, unlike outsiders, have free wills, and, in most cases, are redeemable even if they do very bad things; culture and upbringing are far more significant to them than alignment, but even those could be broken from with enough willpower and determination. Thus, most mortals lack alignments, even most criminals lack it - Evil (as an alignment) is not just stealing, lying and even killing, it is *demonic*; a criminal becomes Evil by his actions and choices only if those would befit a demon, not a petty thief or cheater (or even an armed brigand who ends up slitting the throat of a guard or two to get to the loot). Greed isn't evil; it is a bad personality characteristic on its own. Other than in performing extreme deeds, mortals get clear alignments only if they fully ally themselves with outsiders - these are paladins, monks, blackguards and priests, as well as wizards who strike deals with demons. Even in this cases, the aura of evil, good, law or chaos is weak at the first levels, but at higher levels a paladin would have the aura of an angel and a blackguard would have the aura of a demon. Think of my alignment idea as a variant on the (2E) ravenloft Taint (if I recall the term correctly, that was a LONG time ago), but going in BOTH directions - you could fall down the slippery slope of Evil, but you could also climb the steep road to Good.

I've used the term "Paladin" abouve liberally; actually, in my world there is no single "Paladin" class, but instead holy warriors of various gods, who are similar to paladins but each having a moral code, an alignment and abilities related to that god. I'd probably replace "Smite Evil" by another ability dependent on the god.

 

[Nyaricus]

I've also decided on going with no alignments IMC, Paladin is a PrC and Monks are disallowed and everyone is happy, right?

You bet.

 

[Nyaricus]

Also, I would consider giving the Paladin a 'Smite Infidel' ability which allows him to smite those that oppose his cause, chuirch or allies.

 

[green slime]

Also, I would consider giving the Paladin a 'Smite Infidel' ability which allows him to smite those that oppose his cause, chuirch or allies.

You Heretic!

Infidel!

I Smite Thee!

 

[Kisanji Arael]

Also, I would consider giving the Paladin a 'Smite Infidel' ability which allows him to smite those that oppose his cause, chuirch or allies.

Double damage versus heretics?

 

[Nifft]

IMC, all living things by default have an aura of mild good, just as Undead (even mindless ones) have an aura of mild evil. Paladins and good Clerics have a strong aura of good, and evil Outsiders, powerful Undead, evil Clerics and Blackguards have a strong aura of evil.

I separate conduct from sponsorship. Getting Divine spells from an entity or force counts as sponsorship, and that gives you a strong aura. Your conduct may cause your sponsor to cut you off, but conduct alone does not generate an aura.

Anyway, my main point is: despite all this, the Paladin in my group has enough targets for his Smites.

-- N