Got the D&D 4e Starter Set...So whatcha wanna know?

[Verys Arkon]

Its hard for us on ENWorld to have the perspective of a new player - we are probably the hardcore gamers of the hobby; a lot (most?) of us are probably DMs.

Here is an analogy though:
A month ago I bought the board game 'Arkham Horror'. It sat unopened on my shelf for weeks because I knew it was going to take some time to learn the rules, and friends were too busy to play immediatley. The other day I broke it open, pushed out the hundred or so tokens, and started reading the rulebook. I thought to myself "Whew, this game has a lot of rules!"....then I glanced at my four feet of D&D books on the shelf and 'face-palmed' myself.

For people like us here on ENWorld, we don't think twice about books with hundreds of pages of rules. But for someone new, especially someone young, even a few dozen pages can seem like a lot, just like the piddly Arkham Horrors rules seemed to me, and I'm a post-graduate!

Until a person moves from "D&D is a game" to "D&D is a hobby", it is probably wise to keep the rules light and streemlined. The motivated 1 in 10 kid is likely the first one to make the leap.

 

[Delta]

@Delta: How does the lifespan of Gleemax fit into that introduction and time scale?

Well, we'd be comparing apples to oranges because the Mulligan/Patrovsky book is talking about full-blown "presistent world" games (2-3 years development, $7+ million). Nonetheless, Gleemax seems to have come and gone unusually quickly (1 year start to finish).

Personally, I'm counting the full "DDI" as roughly analogous to an MMO in complexity (including all web, forums, tools, magazines, game table, etc.), considering that it's coming from a non-computer-game company. So I'd guess 2+ years full development. Then the company has to withstand the shock of realization that proper support costs add another half of development on full-launch day ($3-5 million).

 

[The Little Raven]

otherwise why not play FFVII?

...because I want to play a multiplayer game that I can just pick up and start playing with my friends without any serious time investment before the start of play, as opposed to buying an outdated piece of hardware (the PlayStation) and a 12-year-old game in order to play by myself.

 

[Korgoth]

I think most of us are just disappointed that this set is not very useful for us existing players.

I strongly disagree. My problem with the starter box is that it is of most use to people who already play: they get a cheap set of counters and map tiles.

See, my disagreements with WOTC and 4E aside, my advice is aimed at helping them win the battle for the whippersnapper's entertainment dollar. When I was a whippersnapper, it was the open-endedness that won me over. Not the combat or any other game mechanic. Heck, we didn't use the mechanics half the time anyway!

With a starter set, you have to absolutely put your best foot forward. I think the whole "fast play" concept has utterly pooched it as a philosophy for starter sets.

Obviously, the die is cast on this one. If I were put in charge right now (as opposed to several months ago!), I'd plan to release the Starter Companion, a paperbound booklet with character gen for levels 1-3 with only basic classes and options. Price point under $10, sold at cost if necessary.

I think making the character builder free through level 3 for all users is a smart move by WOTC. I'm just not sure that D&D and digital ultimately go together like chocolate and peanut butter, which is what WOTC seems to think. I think it's more like chocolate and bacon... two good things which it is a mistake to try to combine.

 

[Imaro]

...because I want to play a multiplayer game that I can just pick up and start playing with my friends without any serious time investment before the start of play, as opposed to buying an outdated piece of hardware (the PlayStation) and a 12-year-old game in order to play by myself.

Uhm...have you read my other posts? I addressed this earlier in the conversation...try D&D Heroes on Xbox. 4 people can play, no investmentr of time before play...and I'm assuming most children have a videogame. Or maybe, Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles, Diablo, Baldur's Gate, etc. etc. Like I said times are changing there are a multitude of fantasy/tactical-combat/multi-player/games on the market now...and this isn't even getting into MMORPG's

As for the whole " that I can just pick up and start playing with my friends without any serious time investment" line...doesn't the DM still need to read and understand the rules, set up or create the adventure, etc.. Isn't this still significantly more investment than popping in a cartridge and playing?

So I'm sorry but...what was your point again? Let me guess, out of all of my posts you were just specifically addressing that one example using Final Fantasy VII.

 

[The Little Raven]

try D&D Heroes on Xbox.

Which necessitates the purchase of an Xbox, the game, and three additional controllers to reach the conclusion that at least one of my players will be sitting out.

So, it's pay $20 for a starter kit that will allow me and my friends to all sit down and play right out of the box, or pay $100 or more to get the hardware, software, and accessories so that one of my players can sit out.

And that doesn't even address the fact that D&D Heroes is neither (a) 4th Edition nor (b) a good game.

So I'm sorry but...what was your point again?

My point is that saying "Hey, go and play a single player game if you don't want to deal with character creation in a multiplayer game" is a load of crap, especially when acquisition of said single-player game would be more expensive than acquisition of the 4e Starter Kit and does not include group play.

 

[Zaruthustran]

Obviously, the die is cast on this one. If I were put in charge right now (as opposed to several months ago!), I'd plan to release the Starter Companion, a paperbound booklet with character gen for levels 1-3 with only basic classes and options. Price point under $10, sold at cost if necessary.

It'd never work as a physical retail product. The Starter Set is meant for Wal-Mart and book stores, and those stores' buyers are going to have a hard enough time taking the Starter Set into their inventory. A companion to that Starter Set? Forget about it.

I think making the character builder free through level 3 for all users is a smart move by WOTC. I'm just not sure that D&D and digital ultimately go together like chocolate and peanut butter, which is what WOTC seems to think. I think it's more like chocolate and bacon... two good things which it is a mistake to try to combine.

This is the way to go. Take your good idea (supporting new players) and move it online, where the number of potential customers is much, much greater than what you could reach by trying to push a paperbound companion into B&M retail. And the cost of distribution is virtually $0.00.

To your point about D&D and digital not going together: that may be, but "communication with customers" and digital do go together like chocolate and peanut butter. And WotC's done a pretty good job with this, especially recently.

 

[Korgoth]

I have faith in printed books. What can I say?

 

[Gallo22]

3.0/3.5 Player here:

For what it's worth, I picked up the Starter set just for the tiles/tokens, which I thought were good, not great, ...but good none-the-less. I paid retail and thought the purchase was worth it for me. The dice that came in the set were very poor as far as dice goes now-a-days and the rule book/adventure book..., well I really can't comment as I'm not using them. They'll probably get dumped.

I know I'm not the target audience (since I'm not playing 4th ed) but I would definitely purchase more monster / character tokens, especially character tokens. It's great to have the monsters and most of us already have plenty of tokens or miniatures to put on the board, but more characters would be great for use as npc and villians.

 

[Gallo22]

To your point about D&D and digital not going together: that may be, but "communication with customers" and digital do go together like chocolate and peanut butter. And WotC's done a pretty good job with this, especially recently.

That's ambigious and debatable.

I have not been generally happy with Wizards' products over the past year or two and don't care for the digital mix.

Like I said, ambigious and debatable