Grappling with a Spiked Chain

[Empirate]

Yeah, the Dragonchain is pretty much just an OK weapon, nothing too fantastic. If the base damage were better, if it had reach, maybe even both, I'd consider spending a feat on the proficiency. Otherwise, not so much.

Thoughts: Multigrab and Greater Multigrab from Savage Species are two feats that, taken together, eliminate the -20 penalty to continue holding without grappling.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

I'm just gonna leave this here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=QL-JDO8paG8#t=1978s
Yeah, it's a kusarigama, not a spiked chain, but they're similar weapons, both with long chains. Whole episode and show is great, but relevant bit is from 33:00 - 34:50 (video should start there), roughly.

 

[Wyvernhand]

not quite, the one I found says you have to grapple with a melee weapon (hence you can't grapple from 10" away)

Reach weapons ARE melee weapons. They aren't ranged weapons, and those are the only 2 options. Anything you can do with a melee weapon, like Power Attack or Disarm, you can do with a reach weapon. So...yea.

 

[Deset Gled]

[MENTION=85158]Dandu[/MENTION] it isn't really fluff, it's a mechanical benefit of range

If you're already making up a houserule to allow grappling with a spiked chain anyway, you're free to houserule that the reach from the chain doesn't apply. It's somewhat logical to claim that just because the spiked chain can hit with reach doesn't mean it can grapple with reach. If you're near the chain's limit, you might have just barely enough chain length to cause a trip, but not enough to fully wrap around the target for a grapple.

 

[Omegaxicor]

Both of you make good points, I have reread the feat to make sure but it says "one-handed or Light" so it still can't be used but I hadn't actually thought that maybe you are only reaching with the end of the chain which means there isn't enough chain to wrap around.

 

[Wyvernhand]

I dunno what you are talking about. My DMG, page 145, lists the Kusiri-Gama as a Light Exotic Melee weapon.

If that doesn't work, the Spinning Sword from Secrets of Sarlona, is a 1-handed exotic reach/adjacent weapon. There is a Spiked Chain variant for every hand grip. 2/3 of them will work with Scorpion's Grasp.

EDIT: Even better! A quick review of my copy of Sandstorm reveals that if I hit with a LIGHT weapon, I don't even have to drop it when I enter the grapple, and I can continue to attack with it in the grapple without suffering the traditional -4 penalty for attacking with a light weapon in a grapple. So, yes, with a Kusiri-gama, you could Scorpion's Grasp your foe, pull them into your square with it, and then continue to strangle them with it.

Its better than I suspected.

 

[Wyvernhand]

RAW, as you point out, doesn't allow it in a grapple, and they don't allow it to start a grapple, either, as far as I know.

Who are you responding to? Cause RAW supports me.

Scorpion's Grasp
<snip>
Benefit: If your attack with an unarmed strike or a light or one-handed melee weapon hits, the strike deals normal damage and then you can attempt to start a grapple as a free action; no initial touch attack is required. If you succeed at starting the grapple, you must drop your one-handed weapon, but if you started the grapple with a light weapon, you can use it in each round to make an attack against the creature you are grappling without taking the normal -4 penalty on the attack roll. If you initiated the grapple while armed, however, you cannot make additional grapple checks to deal damage during the round in which you use this feat.
<snip>

Bolding emphasis by me. A Kusiri-gama is a light exotic weapon according to the table in the DMG, page 145.

The last line references this:

If you're grappling.
Damage Your Opponent

While grappling, you can deal damage to your opponent equivalent to an unarmed strike. Make an opposed grapple check in place of an attack. If you win, you deal nonlethal damage as normal for your unarmed strike (1d3 points for Medium attackers or 1d2 points for Small attackers, plus Strength modifiers). If you want to deal lethal damage, you take a -4 penalty on your grapple check.
Exception: Monks deal more damage on an unarmed strike than other characters, and the damage is lethal. However, they can choose to deal their damage as nonlethal damage when grappling without taking the usual -4 penalty for changing lethal damage to nonlethal damage.

You can still perform all of the other grappling actions, like Move a Grapple, Pin your Opponent, Cast a Spell, etc. You just can't make grapple checks to deal UAS damage, because you started the grapple with a weapon.

 

[Omegaxicor]

I'm sorry I was referring to the Spiked Chain I mentioned in my OP I forgot to consider that the Kusari-gama is a light 1-handed version, I will look into that (although it requires several feats to make work which MIGHT be a problem)

thanks very much, especially for pointing out twice that I had missed obvious things