Guns in D&D?

hexgrid said:
One problem I have with introducing "tech-level-appropriate" guns into D&D is that, unlike in the real world, D&D guns have to compete with magic. Flint-lock pistols and the like would have so little impact on a D&D style high magic setting that there's no reason to bother introducing them.

In D&D, I think that in order for firearms to be a significant addition, you'd have to jump right to weapons of modern or sci-fi power levels. (Like Dragonstar, for example.) Of course, this radically changes the nature of combat.

So, by the same measure, there's no point in introducing crossbows, plate armor, or the stirrup, because magic is around and thus there's why even bother?

Nah, those things come about -because- there's Something Better out there to compete with. If you want a logical extension, look at it like this: there's a guy over there who can throw a fireball at you and kill you stone dead in one go. If you shoot him with your shortbow, throw a javelin at him, or tag him with a sling stone you might kill him.

But if you don't, you're dead as disco.

Thus your motivation is to cook up something that packs a mighty punch, strong enough to make Mister Wizard over there forget all those years he spent at Hogwarts and get shipped home in a bodybag with stars and moons sewn on it.

In a magical world, guns arn't useless because there are wizards out there that can just do it better anyway, guns are for those people who need to shoot those wizards and can't use magic themselves.
 

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JoeGKushner said:
Enduring Shot
Prerequisites: Dwarf, Con 15, BAB +6, Precise Shot, Point Blank Shot
Useless Filler Text
Your dwarven heritage serves you well! Your endurance is so great that it travels through the earth guiding the bullets to your targets weak and squishy parts.


When using a firearm the user is able to apply his Constitution Bonus to all damage rolled.

Thank you, sir. You are a gentleman and a scholar.
 



Don't forget to turn the guns into a plot element. I.e., don't take new tech for granted. Play out all the political, religious, and socioeconomic angles you can think of.
 

Tuzenbach said:
Don't forget to turn the guns into a plot element. I.e., don't take new tech for granted. Play out all the political, religious, and socioeconomic angles you can think of.

Exactly my plan.

I've been trying to think of what the pseudo-oriental island in my budding setting could be exporting that would be rare and important to the rest of the world, then it hit me. Smokepowder.

I needed a reason to protect this little island because they are in the process of breaking away from a powerful nation, of which they are a hundred miles or so off the coast. I needed a reason why the nation wouldn't just simply invade and kill the treacherous rebels. Because they are the primary exporter of smokepowder in the world, thier parent nation and its allied nations have been hesitant to tangle with them. If they go to war, their shipments will stop, and nobody wants that.
 
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For my Arcana Evolved/3.5 hybrid game, I use most of the rules presented by Fantasy Flight's "Sorcery and Steam", with the addition of the gunpowder critical fumble rule (or Malfunction Rating 1) given to firearms in the WarCraft d20 RPG. In the event of a natural one when handling any sort of gunpowder device, whether as an attack roll or even a skill check, the weapon malfunctions, (usually exploding in the user's hands for the same damage as the shot would do, DC 15 reflex for half). Also, firearms do not automatically pierce through armor and shields, and use normal attack rolls. Further, I treat them as a category of Exotic Weapons, requiring a feat to gain proficiency, which generally means that they're used by characters with a good dexterity, evasion and/or bonus feats to play with (Akashic, Unfettered, Rogue, etc.) I also added in the Munitions skill as a class skill for the 3 aforementioned classes to promote the use not only of firearms, but of gunpowder explosives, and for the benefits of high-DC skill checks to reload times.

Essentially, this means that a normal, everyday guy who picks up a gun is probably not going to be proficient in it's use, and has a good chance of blowing up, and will be abysmally slow to reload. As such, guns are seen as somewhat eccentric weapons that aren't practical yet for mass-combat, and much like all the best equipment, is the forte of Adventurers and Nobles who have the time to invest in being exceptionally good with an exotic weapon.

Despite all these drawbacks, adventurers can still become very good at gunslinging. For instance, a 6th level Rogue or Unfettered could easily be proficient, have a reasonable chance to avoid serious injury from mishaps due to their good reflex saves, and have the feats (Rapid Reload) and skills (Munitions DC 25) to load and fire a flintlock within a single round. Couple this with Quick Draw, and a liberal use of speedburst, and there's little reason that a character could not take his full iterative attacks with a pair of firearms, though he would probably still be down the next round to reload both weapons, or else only be able to reload and fire one. While this isn't exactly realistic, it does drive home the superhuman nature of heroes and villains in the campaign as opposed to normal people, and allows even flintlocks to be a valid weapon-of-choice for a properly built character rather than simply and opening gambit.

In my current campaign, the party's 12th-level Unfettered carries 13 firearms upon his person, 9 normal flintlocks (one is +1), 3 double barrelled ones (again, one of them is +1), an a double-barrelled flintlock rifle. The +1 weapons are heirlooms from his parents, worn at his sides, the musket slung over his shoulder, and the remainder concealed in his coat, which has numerous pockets allowing it to function as a Heward's Handy Haversack, and his vast storehouse of ammunition in his Bag of Holding. While he carries a variety of other weapons, scavenged from various foes, his guns are generally the first and best offense that he has, making him the second highest damage dealer in the party (After the Party's Giant Shark Totem Warrior, who's Greatsword + 30 STR and Reach makes him the equivalent of a Meat Grinder). However, the Gunslinger's reliance on his equipment is much heavier than any other character in the party, and carrying that much gunpowder makes him a liability in an AoE effect should his Reflex saves fail despite his Evasion, and moreover, he often finds himself resorting to melee combat against foes with damage reduction greater than /+1 or magic, since he went for quantity over quality.

On another note, my campaign has also included a gunslinging NPC who was a Runethane, having adapted the Lock 'n Load spell from the pdf linked to by helpful people above into a Lesser Rune which he always kept inscribed on his personal flintlock. With their affinity for technology and "lawful" concepts, the Runethane actually works exceptionally well in a world that is attempting to modernize, as new runes are created to represent new aspects of the world (like guns and steam engines) and old runes are put to new uses (i.e. the rune of accuracy

Robert "Guns Don't Kill People...PC's do" Ranting
 

Sejs said:
In a magical world, guns arn't useless because there are wizards out there that can just do it better anyway, guns are for those people who need to shoot those wizards and can't use magic themselves.

Except then you get into the verisimilitude arguement that guns (of the period) don't pack a bigger punch than that shortbow or javelin. Guns gained their place because it was easier to train troops and cheaper to equip them with guns than with other weapons. In D&D terms, they need to be simple weapons and cheaper and lighter than shortbows so you can arm your commoners with them. Then, instead of sending those 20 warriors against the wizard with martial weapons, you can send the 100 commoners with guns and he probably can't kill them all before they get some shots off (and then your warriors can rush in).
 

Patrick Younts wrote a small PDF on gunpowder weapons for Ronin arts that I use as a basis for them in my campaign. I thought it was brilliant that hew was able to come up with a simple and elegant reason that guns remain rare.
 

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