Hairbrained idea - 3.5 Atomizing class/level abilities

[Brimshack]

An idea I've kicked around for awhile would be trying to convert the entire level advancement scheme into a flexible approach wherein each of the indovodual components of advancement are paid for independantly. You could take the experience points for any given level and divide them up allocating portions to each individual component of a level. For example,

BAB could be 25% of the experience points needed for a level (that seems high, but just to get the idea down). So, to raise your BAB to +3 you'd need to put 25% of the experience points necessary for 3rd level into you BAB. To raise it to +4, you'd need 25% of fourth, etc.

The first skill point in any given skill could cost say 10 x.p., the next 30, etc. Or the character's total skill points could be set for a specific rate.

Each saving throw could be 20% of the x.p. needed for the level desired. Feats could cost say 500 for the first, 1,500 for the second, etc. Class abilities could be paid for according to the level at which they are gained, and a special rate would need to be devised for spell casting, etc.

Classes would obviously become much less important, but the potentially neat thing is a player could then control the relative strengths and weaknesses of his characters much more. If he wants more Feats, he can have them, wants a lot of skills, no problem. Of course, hyperspecialization would involve diminishing returns, but the decision to spend some x.p. on a lagging feature would be up to each individual player.

It's just a hair-brained idea, but I wonder if anyone has tried something like this. If so, I'm curious as to how it worked out.

 

[Dalamar]

Buy the Numbers does exactly that, and has the costs for all PHB classes figured out.

 

[Alzrius]

Here's a link to Buy the Numbers. Also, check out the Modern d20 version, Point Buy Numbers.

 

[Brimshack]

Cool, thanks guys.

 

[Stalker0]

One thing that you should watch out for is the potential for players to min max too much.

One nice benefit of levels is that players tend to get a little bit of everything. Better saves, better BAB, better HP.

Modular systems allow a person to sacrifice all of those to max a single unit...which can make character unplayable.

 

[Alzrius]

One thing that you should watch out for is the potential for players to min max too much.

One nice benefit of levels is that players tend to get a little bit of everything. Better saves, better BAB, better HP.

Modular systems allow a person to sacrifice all of those to max a single unit...which can make character unplayable.

That's true, but game balance isn't just about characters gaining power at a proportionate rate. A character who builds everything into that one unit will find themselves underpowered in regards to everything else. Someone who puts everything into their BAB will have a terrible AC, and not last very long, for example. It tends to be self-correcting in game-play, as unbalanced characters quickly become dead or useless.

 

[amethal]

One thing that you should watch out for is the potential for players to min max too much.

One nice benefit of levels is that players tend to get a little bit of everything. Better saves, better BAB, better HP.

Modular systems allow a person to sacrifice all of those to max a single unit...which can make character unplayable.

If a player uses added flexibility to create an unplayable character then that is his problem. Tough!

The problem with the level system is that often

in order to get something that you want
you have to get other things that you don't want
and give up things that you did want.

That's a convoluted sentence, so I'll give an example.

In D&D, if you want to be a "trap detector" you have to take a level of rogue. (Unless you want to detect traps by setting them off, which is a perfectly valid character choice but not what I have in mind here.)

One way around this is by taking another character class or prestige class which grants trapfinding - the only one I can think of is the scout - which is not a solution, but rather a means of restating the problem.

The cleric spell "Find Traps" is an option, but there are much better things clerics of levels 3+ could be doing with their second level spell slots.

Thus, you are required to take a rogue level.

This costs you

base attack bonus
your normal saving throw progression
a caster level
any other level dependent bonuses
progression in skills not on the rogue list (a very minor drawback, as rogue list is the best)
hit points, unless you are a wizard or sorcerer

in return you get

+1d6 sneak attack
more skill points
access to the rogue skill list
+2 to reflex saves

I can think of plenty of character concepts where the advantages are outweighed by the disadvantages.

What is needed is not a pure point buy system.

Simply make trapfinding a feat (and do the same for any other class abilities as appropriate).

The reason this has not been done is, as far as I can tell, from a desire to keep the rogue's role in the party nothwithstanding the introduction of the skill system. Its a "sacred cow", but not one I am in favour of.

 

[Mercule]

IMO, this sort of thing kills a lot of the benefit of a class/level system (which actually does have some benefits). I'd hate to see it made core in 4E but, if it floats your boat, I'm glad there's an alt.rules available.

 

[drdevoid]

There was a Dragon Magazine (#???) article which focused on this idea. I believe it was the feature from the cover.

It included a feat, "Sculpt Self" and cost XP to add permanent abilities. It was based on the magic item creation formula but with a greater multiplier.

 

[Alzrius]

There was a Dragon Magazine (#???) article which focused on this idea. I believe it was the feature from the cover.

It included a feat, "Sculpt Self" and cost XP to add permanent abilities. It was based on the magic item creation formula but with a greater multiplier.

Not quite the same. That article, "Prestige Races" by Greg Dent and Brannon Hollingsworth, from Dragon #304, was about taking prestige races (from Oathbound; this article was one of the extremely few OGC articles in Dragon). The Sculpt Self feat just made you eligible to take a prestige race.

Found thanks to the DragonDex.