Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix SPOILERS!!!

[sckeener]

This actually occurs in book six, not OotP. I'm re-reading Half Blood Prince right now.

Yup, you are correct. I thought he'd mentioned it when at the dinner table when they were filling Harry in on what was going on in the Order....but I was wrong.

 

[buzzard]

I agree that the Seeker is important because their catching of the Golden Snitch stops the game, but just catching it doesn't mean you win. Remember the World Cup where Krum caught the Snitch but his team still lost?

Yes, but of course that makes me wonder how Bulgaria got there at all if the rest of their team was so lousy besides their seeker.

buzzard

 

[sckeener]

I agree that the Seeker is important because their catching of the Golden Snitch stops the game, but just catching it doesn't mean you win. Remember the World Cup where Krum caught the Snitch but his team still lost?

Yes, but of course that makes me wonder how Bulgaria got there at all if the rest of their team was so lousy besides their seeker. buzzard

Personally all I think the game needs is a time limit and a change that catching the golden snitch doesn't end the game. 90 minutes sounds fine. The Seeker would still be important, but the other players wouldn't be so worthless.

 

[buzzard]

Personally all I think the game needs is a time limit and a change that catching the golden snitch doesn't end the game. 90 minutes sounds fine. The Seeker would still be important, but the other players wouldn't be so worthless.

Yes, that would be a substantial improvement. Also a lower score for the snitch would be good as well.

buzzard

 

[Elf Witch]

Exactly. Not to mention that at least ONE student might tell a teacher that they trusted.

I have to admit that this pushed a personal button of mine. As a survivor of childhood abuse I always thought no adults knew. But I eventually discovered that adults outside of my family knew about the abuse and did nothing.

I don't ignore that type of thing. I *remember*.

They don't cover this in the movie but in the book Hermoine and Ron keep encouraging Harry to tell someone what is happening. Harry refuses he feels that to do so would play into Umbrage's hands and also he is very upset with Dumbledore.

Also she was in a postion of power over the other teachers I don't think they could have stopped it without being sacked.


As for informing the parents all communications in and out of Hogwort's was being watched both the Owls and the Floo network.

Another thing even if a parent found out about it all they could really do is pull their child out of Hogwarts. The one wizard paper was under the control of Fudge the Minister of Magic. And their were students at Hogwarts who were afraid that if they complained their parents would get sacked from their jobs in the ministry.

 

[Mark Chance]

They don't cover this in the movie but in the book Hermoine and Ron keep encouraging Harry to tell someone what is happening.

In the movie, it was very clearly implied that Hermione and Ron told Maggie Smith about what had happened.

Harry refuses he feels that to do so would play into Umbrage's hands and also he is very upset with Dumbledore.

Also she was in a postion of power over the other teachers I don't think they could have stopped it without being sacked.

As for informing the parents all communications in and out of Hogwort's was being watched both the Owls and the Floo network.

Another thing even if a parent found out about it all they could really do is pull their child out of Hogwarts. The one wizard paper was under the control of Fudge the Minister of Magic. And their were students at Hogwarts who were afraid that if they complained their parents would get sacked from their jobs in the ministry.

All of the rest you mentioned are just examples of why I cannot fathom how a series of such poorly plotted, acted, et cetera, movies could garner a fan base. The very idea that a gang of wizardly children would even submit to mass torture itself is ludicrous. They're ready to fight the Forces of Darkness, but can't stand up to a single bully? The parents of students who themselves are wizards couldn't do anything except withdraw their children? Absurd. That any institution could torture students with impunity and still retain any semblance of prestige is likewise ludicrous. It is quite obvious that important members of the faculty knew what was going on in the movie. That they chose to protect their jobs rather than their students reduces them to the status of moral cowards at best.

I watch a lot of movies, and OotP is easily one of worst I've seen this year.

 

[Elf Witch]

In the movie, it was very clearly implied that Hermione and Ron told Maggie Smith about what had happened.



All of the rest you mentioned are just examples of why I cannot fathom how a series of such poorly plotted, acted, et cetera, movies could garner a fan base. The very idea that a gang of wizardly children would even submit to mass torture itself is ludicrous. They're ready to fight the Forces of Darkness, but can't stand up to a single bully? The parents of students who themselves are wizards couldn't do anything except withdraw their children? Absurd. That any institution could torture students with impunity and still retain any semblance of prestige is likewise ludicrous. It is quite obvious that important members of the faculty knew what was going on in the movie. That they chose to protect their jobs rather than their students reduces them to the status of moral cowards at best.

I watch a lot of movies, and OotP is easily one of worst I've seen this year.

I don't remember the kids telling McCongel anything. Or even that it was implied can you point me to the scene you are talking about?

And in the book the only being tortured is Harry and I think near the end Lee may get it.

The problem with the movie is that they have to cut so many plots out.

As for the kids submiting to torture and not fighting back most of the kids cannot stand against an adult wizard. And none of them were tortured.

There is also the matter of Lord Voldermort in the books you know how many people he has slaughtered entire families. One of the reason Dumbledore and his loyal staff are not fighting back is that they are trying to keep a low profile as they move themselves into postion to have a chance against Voldermort and his followers and while doing this they are trying to stay out of Azkeban. Fudge is controlling everything the Daily Prophet, the wizard court. Most people are so afraid of Voldermort that they prefer to believe what Fudge says because the Dark Lord is so scary that don't want to believe he is back.

As for the parents of the other children I don't find it surprising that most of them would prefer to keep their heads down. That is human nature. Most of them are not going to take a stand against the legal goverment of Wizards. But again I will point out that what was happening to Harry was not common knowledge. Other than Ron and Hermoine I don't believe any other students knew or teachers for that matter.

I didn't think the movie was that great myself mainly because they had to cut so much out and unlike the other movies I don't think it maintained the spirit of the books that the other movies did.

 

[Mark Chance]

I don't remember the kids telling McCongel anything. Or even that it was implied can you point me to the scene you are talking about?

When Maggie Smith confronts Umbrage about torturing Potter (and, IIRC, she even uses that word to describe what went on), Potter shoots an angry glance (thus very nearly exhausting Daniel Radcliffe's on-screen emotional range) at Hermione and Ron, the actors of whom manage to pull enough talent to look guilty.

And in the book the only being tortured is Harry and I think near the end Lee may get it.

I'm not discussing the book. I'm criticizing the movie.

As for the kids submiting to torture and not fighting back most of the kids cannot stand against an adult wizard.

They had her outnumbered about a dozen to one, and they did a fine enough job against the generically bland evil wizards at the end (at least until the evil wizards turned into smoke and resorted to the unstoppable tactic of grabbing the kids).

And none of them were tortured.

Of course they were. They were children forced to write lines that resulted in self-mutilation. I'm certain even the most uncritical definition of "torture" would have to concede that the children were indeed tortured. Even you admit as much, since you describe the exact same punishment inflicted on Potter as torture.

But again I will point out that what was happening to Harry was not common knowledge. Other than Ron and Hermoine I don't believe any other students knew or teachers for that matter.

A number of people in the movie certainly knew what was going on, especially after the mass torture.

Again, I just don't get it. The Potter movies are, at the absolute best, mediocre fair. Most of them have been train wrecks, but without the vicarious excitement. Perhaps the books are better. I don't know, since the first one couldn't hold my interest for more than 100 hundreds pages (putting it the same league as Interview with a Vampire).

 

[Elf Witch]

I don't remember that scene in the movie but I will take your word for it.

My roomate reminded me that they showed an entire class room filled with kids writing lines with the quill. She said I missed it when I left to get the manager to come do something about the kid behind us throwing his popcorn and spilling soda down people's back while mommy ignored him.

This is so different from the book and I agree with you now knowing about the scene that this is WTF Jump the Shark moment because there is no way that mass torture like that would be allowed by either the teachers or anyone else.

I hope the rest of the movies are not like this but giving the size of the books and the more complex plots I am not holding out much hope.

The only reason I can think off why they changed it for the movie is that took out so many of the other things Umbrage was doing like giving Harry, George and Fred a lifetime ban from Quiditch. Or her causing Hedwig to be hurt. That they added scenes to make sure we knew just how bad she was.

 

[Hijinks]

They don't cover this in the movie but in the book Hermoine and Ron keep encouraging Harry to tell someone what is happening. Harry refuses he feels that to do so would play into Umbrage's hands and also he is very upset with Dumbledore.

A very good point.

One thing that I think was downplayed mucho in the film was the occlumency. Harry is trying to talk to Dumbledore and then he's whisked away by Snape. Then he's thrust into this occlumency. I don't think that they explained to the audience what was being done and why, very well.

Harry is angry at Dumbledore because he thinks that DD is snubbing him. As it turns out (in the book), DD is trying not to look at Harry because he is aware of the connection between Harry and Voldy, and he does not want Voldy to see DD through Harry's eyes and, in a fit of rage, take over Harry to get at DD. At least that's the way I believe I remember from the book. So he avoids Harry's eyes and won't talk to him directly.

I don't think anyone who hasn't read the books got that point, until halfway through the movie he yells at DD, "LOOK AT ME!" My friends who were with me were like "whuh?" They hadn't gotten that DD was avoiding Harry until that point.

I thought the occlumency deserved more time and I would have really liked for them to explore Snape's motivations and memories more, as they did in the book (or was that all in HBP?) because it is important later.

As a side note: what are they going to do in the movies if Rowling brings Sirius back in book 7? They're screwed if she does; they specifically had him killed in the film, not "maybe killed" like in the book.