Has 3E become too much like 2E yet?

[satori01]

The problem for me with 2E was not the continual splat book explosion, I had shied away from the game probably a little bit before that. My big problem was the implied narrative of D&D had broke down.

FR being the default setting made it pretty clear from a world building standpoint that unless you were a human Archmage with unlimited level advancement potential you were hosed.

The system had built into it restraints on Dwarves, Elves, and Dragons. It made sense logically, but was not fun in any way, that Dwarves were dying, Elves were retreating, and Dragons had to get a lot of rules bending to be even partially effective, (read the original Wyrms of the North articles in Dragon Mag).

3.5 as a system is so much more robust, logically, and imminently adaptable, I do not feel a growing disgust with the limitations of the system.

 

[green slime]

Core rules only. It works with all editions of D&D. The existance of a supplemental/optional rule book does not affect my game in the least. It would not affect your game either, if you did not take action to bring it in.

Complaining about supplemental/optional rule books hurting your D&D game is like complaining that McDonalds is making you fat. If you don't turn into the parking lot, if you don't order the Big Mac, if you don't eat it, it won't make you fat.

Quasqueton

No, MacDonalds is making other people fat, yet I share the burden for their healthcare. Raised insurance costs affect me. Am I allowed to complain?

As a consumer, I have every right to vocally complain about what I feel is wrong when I have purchased something.

 

[hong]

the crunch in the splats.

This is possibly the most awesome mixed metaphor I've ever used.

 

[brehobit]

I think it has recently gotten silly. But mostly the silly is well designed. So Bo9S isn't balanced, but it _is_ interesting (and fun to boot). So it has much of the unbalanced nature of 2e but I still mostly like it!

Mark

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

This applies only to those of us who used to play 2E.

Many of us either quit 2E because of all the extra rules books, or kept playing and ignored the extra books, or kept playing and used the extra books to some extent.

So I am curious. How do you feel about all these extra rules books in 3E compared to how you felt about the similiar books in 2E??

I ignore them. Frankly, there's enough stuff in the three Core Rules books plus the Expanded Psionics Handbook to last be for a long time - certainly enough for my D&D games.

When I want more rules options in my games, I play more flexible RPGs instead. Less hassle and less stuff to read this way.

 

[billd91]

Also, crappy, crappy generic NPCs. The DMG and the PHB II ones are just amazingly crap.

This is a problem? They're not supposed to be ass-kickin' examples of main villains or anything. They're the faceless mooks who just manage to grab a bit more sceen time than the truly downtrodden mooks who only rate NPC classes. Grab a few for some quick development and spend your time on the big boys.

 

[wayne62682]

The biggest problem I have is that some of the optional rules are good, and others suck, but it feels "wrong" (to me at least, but I have issues) to use some and not all. For example: With that Armored Spellcaster variant rule in Complete Mage (the one that lets you ignore ASF in light armor for spells equal to Fighter level +1) there's no need for PrCs like the Spellsword or Eldritch Knight, and I could make a perfectly viable fighter/mage character just with Fighter/Wizard or Fighter/Sorcerer; but a "Core Only" game won't allow that option, thus I can't make the fighter/mage (or at least not the kind I'm thinking of that wears some form of armor and still effectively casts spells), and a game that allows splatbooks but not Complete Mage is just forcing me to take a plethora of PrCs since the option that would remove the need for said PrCs isn't allowed. It's a weird kind of domino effect.

I realize it's possible to present that option to the DM and have any reasonably sane DM consider it (and probably allow it), but there are the jerks out there who are too lazy to look at anything non-core or feel slighted if a player asks about using something from a splatbook. In short, the game has become far too convoluted. You limit it way too much if you play Core only (in my opinion) because there are good options in other books (I personally would like to see 4E or whatever incorporate character options into the Core rules for variety, and also triple the number of them), but it's ridiculous to allow everything out there.

 

[Arnwyn]

So how does your experience compare this time around?

My situation has turned out rather strangely.

For 2e, I had - and used - virtually all the supplemental material, right through and including the Complete Ninja's Handbook. We even used a couple of the PO books (notably Combat & Tactics, but not Skills & Powers). And everything worked well enough for us - after massive tweaking and fixing. The lack of any consistent mechanics was a brutal problem, but the material that was there was at least inspiring. But like I said - a pain to use and time-consuming to fix.

But in those days, I had time. Nowadays, I am more inclined to use a 3e supplemental book - but I don't. I've ignored large swaths of rules material for the last couple of years now, simply because I've grown older and have other things to do in my life now. I don't have time to go through all these optional books to pull out a couple things that I might be interested in, and I'm just not interested in making the time to do so. All my purchases these days are adventures and FR expansions.

Thus, my situation turned out to be weird and counterintuitive: I used more 2e stuff and it was crappy, and I ignore more 3e stuff even though it's far better (mechanically, at least... virtually none of it is inspiring). Ah, life.

 

[RFisher]

I've never bought most of the supplements for any RPG.

Wait. OK, I guess I do have all the Rolemaster Companions that were out at the time.

& I did by all the D&D3.0 splatbooks, but they earned the dubious honor of being the first & only RPG material that I've sold.

What was it about those RM Companions...?

 

[KenSeg]

Our group uses the core books almost exclusively with the addition of the classes from PHBII. We do not use prestige classes.

-KenSeg
gaming since 1978