Hasbro/WotC has crossed the Trust Thermocline

[Parmandur]

Yeah. I guess if you can't see the difference in someone making a product for love of the game, sometimes at great financial risk, from a mega billion dollar corporation that wants to sell you microtransactions of barely usable content to appease stockholders, all the while disrespecting you and your hobby behind closed doors, then I guess enjoy your Big Mac D&D.

In terms of their personal life and fulfillment, I'm sure it's a big difference. That doesn't effect whether I want a product or not, and it is not a sufficient consideration to overcome what I want to buy or not.

I do pay a significant markup on my RPG products by buying them from a local business instead of Amazon or Target, but in that case I am on a first name basis with the owner in person.

 

[The Stray]

Even on this board, with everyone reading all these posts, with the assumption of some friendliness with 3PP, we can't even get half the responders to a poll to say they'd consider not playing 5e.
Even most people on here don't care. They're hoping they can keep giving Wizards money, praying things don't change. And most of the people will forget within two weeks or whenever the next book comes out.
"Hey, it stinks that Wizards is going to shutter independent design studios and people are going to lose their jobs to the draconian, backstabbing jerks at Wizards, but I can't live without owning literally everything they make."

The Thermocline isn't one bad decision, one price increase, one loss of service or privilege, one change to a product. It's an aggregate feeling, and it won't hit for everyone all at once. It only seems sudden to those who weren't paying attention to the Check Engine light that's been glowing on the dash for a while now.

 

[Parmandur]

40% no longer playing D&D on this forum is bad. Real bad.

Given how many that will continue but might not buy another thing? Probably not an insignificant number.

True, it is significant, but still: how representative is it? And how will people respond as WotC backpeddles like the corporate weenies they are?

History suggests forgive and forget, even for the third party publishers.

 

[Justice and Rule]

@Retreater

Some people will justify their favs doing whatever, man. They just won't be convinced, and you're better off just walking away, if only for your mental health.

40% on this forum is bad. Real bad.

Given how many that will continue might not buy another thing? Probably not an insignificant number.

I mean, given the wording is basically never play an edition that you'd never need to buy stuff for again, it's arguably harsher than it first reads.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

40% no longer playing D&D on this forum is bad. Real bad.

Considering how many that will continue but might not buy another thing? Probably not an insignificant number.

That poll isn’t a positive thing for WotC in any way.

The fact that we are the target audience for 3pp (long time hardcore fans that are on a site that is from a 3pp) is 40% is bad but not "oh everyone is leaving this game" levels. I wonder if it is a blip on casuals radar.

 

[The Scythian]

Those who responded to the survey was like 60 - 40 I think, the majority buying whatever Wizards puts out.

That's not accurate.

The poll in that thread asked whether or not people plan to continue playing D&D, not if they're going to continue buying stuff from WotC, and certainly not if they're going to continue buying whatever WotC puts out. In fact, if you read the thread itself, there are actually a lot of people who say that they will continue playing D&D, but don't intend to buy anything from WotC going forward, or that they won't buy anything from WotC unless they back down over deauthorizing the OGL. There are also a number of people who say that while they're not boycotting WotC, they haven't bought their products in however long for other reasons.

I'm one of the people who answered that I would continue playing, but I also put up a post clarifying that I wouldn't be buying any WotC products going forward, and that I am currently running B/X (via OSE) and my group is having a good time.

 

[Justice and Rule]

The fact that we are the target audience for 3pp (long time hardcore fans that are on a site that is from a 3pp) is 40% is bad but not "oh everyone is leaving this game" levels. I wonder if it is a blip on casuals radar.

It depends on who they lose. They can probably afford to lose casuals more than they can the dedicated players, because the dedicated players are likely the ones running things, buying adventures, monster compendiums, etc. How many GMs share their books/Beyond access with their players?

So if those are the people you are hitting, that's arguably worse since you are basically taking out a load-bearing structure: each one who doesn't want to play may not get replaced, meaning that you are losing several possible customers instead of one. We won't know for a little while, but I'd say this is bad.

I'd also say that I don't think this is ending real soon, because (as the thread and the article note) once you breach the trust thermocline, it's hard to get people back. Big, mask-off moments are not little controversies, and they can have a lasting impact, especially when there are plenty of other options on the market. While corporations aren't your friends, generally-speaking people don't like out-and-out bullies, and this is the sort of move that can change people's standing opinions.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

I won’t put trust in a corporation that makes 1.3B revenue. they won’t come to help if I’m in needs!

I expect that Wotc show a nice public image. Which they fail during the OGL affair, but for now they handle the damage control nicely.

I expect that they manage continuity and improvement over the initial PHB.
For now pretty good with Xanathar, Tasha, and the first drafts of OneDnd.

They failed at the damage control as well, it's a meme now, mocking it and the rage just grows as does the boycott.

 

[Dire Bare]

If they had released Planescape and maybe Dark Sun (and psionics) and THEN Ravnica no one would have objected.

Oh good lord.

Not releasing your favorite settings is not an erosion of trust. Publishing Magic/D&D crossovers is not an erosion of trust.

Perhaps YOU didn't want those products, but I did. As did others.

Now WotC trying to de-authorize the OGL in an attempt to increase the monetization of D&D at the expense of the open-gaming community . . . . now that's a huge erosion of trust right there.

 

[Dire Bare]

Wizards of the Coast isn't our friend...but neither are Kobold Press, Goodman Games, Paizo, Green Ronin, etc. They are all corporate content providers. Paizo was implicat3d in far more problematic practices less than a year ago, and people have moved on...and really, why not...?

WotC, as part of Hasbro, is a publicly-traded company that is beholden to shareholders. And typically, these types of companies prioritize profit over all other considerations. Short-term thinking vs. long-term thinking. You can be friends, or have friendly feelings towards, some of the folks who work for those types of companies . . . but yes, the company itself is not "your friend".

I feel friendly towards many of the "faces" of WotC's D&D team, including Chris Perkins, Greg Tito, Shelly Mazzanoble, and others. But I realize, while they are important, they aren't the decision makers. Not at the top. They aren't driving this, regardless of their personal feelings on the matter, whatever they might be. But yeah, WotC, the company, isn't my friend. They do make products I love though . . .

However, most smaller RPG publishers are not publicly traded companies, and they don't have shareholders to appease. They are usually owned by one or a handful of owners. Profit is certainly a motive for these companies, but it is not always prioritized over people, over communities, as it usually is with publicly traded corporations.

I actually do feel friendly towards Green Ronin, because Green Ronin is Chris Pramas. I'm "friends" with Kobold Press, because Kobold is Wolfgang Bauer. I have mixed feelings towards Paizo, because Paizo is Lisa Stevens . . . whose done a lot of good, but also some shady stuff towards her employees. Whether I'm "friends" with a particular company, depends a lot on WHO the owner is and how they treat their employees, their fans/customers, and the larger RPG community. I'm choosy about friends in my personal life also . . . not much different.

Nothings black-or-white my friend.