D&D 5E Have the designers lost interest in short rests?

[Xeviat]

So how would we convert the short rest features into long rest features? Action surge could turn into proficiency/day, but I'd tie it to fighter level so it wasn't dipable (that's my problem with that mechanic).

 

[Don Durito]

So how would we convert the short rest features into long rest features? Action surge could turn into proficiency/day, but I'd tie it to fighter level so it wasn't dipable (that's my problem with that mechanic).

Why Proficiency a day? What's the benefit of that progression? I tend to think of Proficiency a day as one of those mechanics people are enamoured because it looks elegant. Why not just 3/day? The Samurai ability is intended to work with Action Surge and it's 3/day.

But really it's just easier to convert short rests themselves into a long rest feature. Two shorts rests a day - 5 minutes each.

 

[tetrasodium]

So how would we convert the short rest features into long rest features? Action surge could turn into proficiency/day, but I'd tie it to fighter level so it wasn't dipable (that's my problem with that mechanic).

That's the difficult part. The short rest classes have powerful abilities balanced around the bad assumption that the gm is excited to shape their campaign around making sure they stay right on the line they are balanced on against long rest classes. A lot of those classes need to be redesigned with some resource burning abilities becoming at will or similar but possibly weaker & other abilities being retooled. For example fighter recovers second wind/action surge while paladin recovers channel divinity &monk recovers their level in ki points so a simple blanket "just do x" doesn't work unless you have a version for each class.

 

[Xeviat]

But really it's just easier to convert short rests themselves into a long rest feature. Two shorts rests a day - 5 minutes each.

This has actually been my solution. But, it still means that the short rest classes are at a big disadvantage in a grand climactic battle, the types you kind of expect to see in a campaign, where a whole day's worth of XP happens all at once in an ultra dangerous battle.

2 short rests a day is the perfect balance point, but it also means there's no time for those long rest classes to shine extra. 3 rests a day (3 meals a day?) would allow for that, but then how regularly would short rest classes outperform in the long run?

Outperforming consistently in the long run while full casters get to steal the show a few times a day with their big grand spells might be ok, though. The trouble is, one class in particular is both; a warlock might be a lot if they got 16 5th level spells a day AND a 6, 7, 8, and 9th level spell ...

 

[Charlaquin]

So how would we convert the short rest features into long rest features? Action surge could turn into proficiency/day, but I'd tie it to fighter level so it wasn't dipable (that's my problem with that mechanic).

Well, two uses per short rest is effectively one use per encounter if the DM is following the adventuring day guidelines. So you can convert that to 6 uses per long rest. Simplifying that gives us 1/short rest = 3/long rest.

 

[Don Durito]

This has actually been my solution. But, it still means that the short rest classes are at a big disadvantage in a grand climactic battle, the types you kind of expect to see in a campaign, where a whole day's worth of XP happens all at once in an ultra dangerous battle.

2 short rests a day is the perfect balance point, but it also means there's no time for those long rest classes to shine extra. 3 rests a day (3 meals a day?) would allow for that, but then how regularly would short rest classes outperform in the long run?

Outperforming consistently in the long run while full casters get to steal the show a few times a day with their big grand spells might be ok, though. The trouble is, one class in particular is both; a warlock might be a lot if they got 16 5th level spells a day AND a 6, 7, 8, and 9th level spell ...

Possibly allow once a day refresh as a free action at the cost of one level of exhaustion. This shouldn't matter if it's the last battle of the day.

But I tend to think to think that 5E is just the wrong game for this sort of situation. 5E only really works if it's environmentally focused and the big battle takes place with depleted resources at the end of several others. For big climatc action movie stuff I would use 13th Age which is just so much better at that kind of thing.

 

[cbwjm]

I'm thinking of using the new prof. bonus/long rest system they have going to redo the arcane archer. In this case, making their arrows have a number of uses equal to 2x prof. bonus/long rest. Gives them a little more oomph in the start instead of 2 super arrows and then no super arrows until they rest a bit.

 

[guachi]

A few years ago I got rid of short rests and just tripled all short rest abilities and let them operate on a long rest. It's basically similar to others who allowed PCs to get 2 short rests per long rest. This left resting for HP as almost the only use of a short rest and that was shortened to 10 minutes (the length of an old school turn).

I've yet to notice anything detrimental to the game and it made my life easier when it came to designing encounters from one to one dozen per long rest.

 

[TwoSix]

That sounds like 4th Edition! Do you want more 4th Edition??!!??

Yes.

 

[Charlaquin]

Well, two uses per short rest is effectively one use per encounter if the DM is following the adventuring day guidelines. So you can convert that to 6 uses per long rest. Simplifying that gives us 1/short rest = 3/long rest.

You know, this calculation exposes what a significant nerf the change to Bladesong is if the DM follows the adventuring day guidelines. From once per encounter to once every three encounters at first level, growing to once per encounter by 17th level. Harsh.