D&D 5E Have the designers lost interest in short rests?

Yeah. I don't think people choose to avoid short rests. I think it's probably more often a case that they lose relevance because not enough encounters actually take place. Healing is less of a concern when you're not taking that much damage. Using Arcane recovery is irrelevant if you never actually use all your slots.

I think quite often parties aren't taking short rests because there's no compelling reason not to take a long rest instead.
 

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EzekielRaiden

Follower of the Way
Short rests are important for the majority of classes, even wizards, clerics, and paladins. They shouldn't avoid short rests if they have the opportunity to take them.
But note that the Important Feature for Wizards and Druids (slot recovery) is more complicated than you indicate. Firstly, it only works once a day. Secondly, Natural Recovery is specifically for Land Druids, not all Druids. The Druid's interest in short rests is heavily dependent on subclass; Land of course always wants to take one short rest and would prefer not to take any more than that, while Moon strongly prefers to take as many as possible. I'm sure other subclasses have their own concerns as well--Druid is just one of the rare cases where different subclasses have really divergent interests.

Thus, instead of having a brute dichotomy--"wants short rests" vs. "doesn't want short rests," already unrealistic because, as noted, Hit Dice can be spent during such times--it would be better to note classes that desire frequent short rests, at least one short rest, a variable amount of short rests, or who don't care. Wizards always want at least one short rest, and often don't want anything more than that.

I think quite often parties aren't taking short rests because there's no compelling reason not to take a long rest instead.
This, however I can agree with unequivocally. And I'm pretty sure this is in no small part because they made short rests an hour long, which means taking three of them in an adventuring day could easily be a quarter of all available time that day (assuming eight-hour long rests).

The game expects people to take 2-3 short rests a day. From what information is available to me and what statements we've gotten from Crawford and others, people actually take around 1, sometimes none (if there's very little pressure), rarely more than 2. And that does, inherently, disadvantage things that get a big chunk of their power from short rests (or from not resting at all; the Rogue theoretically doesn't care about any kind of rest, but that means they need long days for their reliable damage output to matter.)

The designers, quite simply, assumed short rests would happen too frequently, and that people would stick it out through more fights than they actually do in practice. This is a perennial design problem, where the designers have repeatedly, over the course of decades and multiple editions, presumed that "sticking it out" type behavior will predominate when it empirically doesn't.
 


Hohige

Explorer
The Champion is supposed to be the best at pure combat and the simplest to play. I think you've missed that both classes can get attacks on their Reactions and Bonus Actions. These are not affected by Action Surge, but are affected by Fighting Styles, Reckless Attack, and Rage. This doubles the Barbarian's damage.

Let's take your 11th level numbers, both getting 8 extra attacks (Reaction & Bonus) over the 4 rounds:

Champ dmg per combat (w/4 rounds AS): 32*(.55*12.33+.1*19.33) = 278.86
Barb dmg per combat (w/Rage & RA): 16*(.78*15.5+.0975*28.5) = 237.9

Clearly favours the Champion. The Champion is supposed to be the best at combat.

Champ dmg per combat (no AS): 20*(.55*12.33+.1*19.33) = 174.29
Barb dmg per combat (only RA): 16*(.78*11.5+.0975*24.5) = 181.74

The Barbarian is better, and does even better as the combat goes on.

Let's rerun those numbers against a higher-AC foe. Say both need a 15+ to hit.

Champ dmg per combat (w/4 rounds AS): 32*(.30*12.33+.1*19.33) = 180.224
Barb dmg per combat (w/Rage & RA): 16*(.51*15.5+.0975*28.5) = 170.94

The Barbarian is not so far off the Champion.

Champ dmg per combat (no AS): 20*(.30*12.33+.1*19.33) = 112.64
Barb dmg per combat (only RA): 16*(.51*11.5+.0975*24.5) = 132.06

The Barbarian is pulling way ahead, doing one extra round's worth of the Champion's damage.

So let's take two average encounters where the Fighter does not use Action Surge and the Barbarian only Reckless Attack, and one boss fight where all are used:

Fighter: 2x 174.29 + 1x 180.224 = 528.804
Barbarian: 2x 181.74 + 1x 170.94 = 534.42

The Barbarian is very slightly ahead!

And we're pre-supposing that the Fighter uses Action Surge for dealing damage when it has many uses out of that: extra movement is the obvious one (remember that the Barbarian has Fast Movement), but there are many other uses. Remember that Action Surge gives you an extra Action, not only an extra Attack Action. I've been over this in other threads and this point has consistently failed to register.

Watch what happens when the Fighter does not use her Action Surge for combat. Maybe it was used to get out of a trap or save a comrade. For fairness the Barbarian has also no Rages left.

Fighter: 2x 174.29 + 1x 112.64 = 461.22
Barbarian: 2x 181.74 + 1x 170.94 = 534.42

The Fighter is way behind. I put it to you that using non-nova class features the Fighter should be a better fighter than the other fighting classes.

TLDR: A multiple-round Action Surge is well-balanced.
Dragon Sorcerer level 8. Shadar-Kai
18dex, 16 con 16 cha.
Tough feat.
82 HP. 17 AC (shield spell) or absorb elements
Quicken and Empower metagamgic


Empowered Shadow Blade upcasted to level 3 + Green Flame Blade + cha bonus + dex bonus
5.5 x 4 + 3 + 4 = avg 29 damage.
You can quicken It for avg 58 damage.
A Second target takes avg 11+12= avg 23 damage
You also can quicken Polymorph for turn yourself into a Giant Ape and multiattack at same turn


The melee sorcerer wins.
 
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